(September 26, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: The fact that we might and yet to be discovered are in the title of the thread lends total rational credence to the subject being discussed.

The title is irrelevant here.  It is the discussion between me and that skeptic that I am focused on here.

---

(September 26, 2017 at 1:40 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 1:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Actually, I would like to get back on topic now since this is the topic I wish to really discuss.  I will point out that long post I made earlier which was a discussion between me and another highly intelligent skeptic:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-51313-p...pid1625672

What exactly makes you think that the individual that agreed with you is "highly intelligent"? What is his/her degree in neuroscience in? Where did he graduate from?

I find that quite a bit of what this person says is questionable.

All I can say here is that my personal experience agrees with him.  I developed an idea based upon my personal experience and, sure enough, I met this skeptic who also agrees and upholds it.  His view was that it is only our positive emotions that make our lives and art matter to us in good and beautiful ways while feelings of misery make our lives bad.  However, he says we can delude ourselves otherwise since biology drives us anyway.  I don't have that biological drive, personally, because I am like the atheist who realizes that it is all deluded nonsense to think that an artistic endeavor pursued through misery is somehow the good life to live.  I have composed during my worst miserable moments and, regardless of what I thought, I could still clearly tell that my life was completely empty.

(September 26, 2017 at 1:41 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: The title is irrelevant here.  It is the discussion between me and that skeptic that I am focused on here.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

(September 26, 2017 at 1:34 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 1:10 pm)Succubus Wrote: That 'discussion' is nothing more than a story you've posted on an internet forum.

It's not a story.  It is a real discussion:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.ph...97#p605797

A brief glance indicates that you did a bit of cherry picking and he did not support you as much as you made it seem here.

(September 26, 2017 at 1:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 1:34 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: It's not a story.  It is a real discussion:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.ph...97#p605797

A brief glance indicates that you did a bit of cherry picking and he did not support you as much as you made it seem here.

You are right.  He did disagree with me on some points.  But he did agree with my worldview which was the idea that it can only be our positive emotions that make our lives matter to us in good ways and that these miserable artists were deluding themselves.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 1:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: A brief glance indicates that you did a bit of cherry picking and he did not support you as much as you made it seem here.

You are right.  He did disagree with me on some points.  But he did agree with my worldview which was the idea that it can only be our positive emotions that make our lives matter to us in good ways and that these miserable artists were deluding themselves.

If that's the case, I disagree with him.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 2:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: You are right.  He did disagree with me on some points.  But he did agree with my worldview which was the idea that it can only be our positive emotions that make our lives matter to us in good ways and that these miserable artists were deluding themselves.

If that's the case, I disagree with him.

But it does, at least, lend an open mind towards my own personal experience which agrees with his worldview.  I'm not sure, but this could go into a neuroscientific debate between him and others and this is yet another debate that I just have to give up on.  Rather, I just have to go by my own personal experience just in terms of what gives my life personal value and worth. As a matter of fact, I asked him to present articles/evidence. So, maybe he will do that later on.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:07 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: But it does, at least, lend an open mind towards my own personal experience which agrees with his worldview.  I'm not sure, but this could go into a neuroscientific debate between him and others and this is yet another debate that I just have to give up on.  Rather, I just have to go by my own personal experience just in terms of what gives my life personal value and worth.  As a matter of fact, I asked him to present articles/evidence.  So, maybe he will do that later on.

bold mind

What exactly would they debate? Magical thinking?

(September 26, 2017 at 2:16 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 2:07 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: But it does, at least, lend an open mind towards my own personal experience which agrees with his worldview.  I'm not sure, but this could go into a neuroscientific debate between him and others and this is yet another debate that I just have to give up on.  Rather, I just have to go by my own personal experience just in terms of what gives my life personal value and worth.  As a matter of fact, I asked him to present articles/evidence.  So, maybe he will do that later on.

bold mind

What exactly would they debate? Magical thinking?

If he presents the articles/evidence I asked him to present, then I will present them here.

(September 26, 2017 at 1:34 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 1:10 pm)Succubus Wrote: That 'discussion' is nothing more than a story you've posted on an internet forum.

It's not a story.  It is a real discussion:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.ph...97#p605797

I've always been aware of your aliases, but seeing how you are much more polite than say, Dropship, I kept shtum.

I think suffering is intrisically bad. Suffering in the short run is only justifiable if it decreases suffering to a greater degree in the long run.

Emotions? Emotions are wayyyyy too hard and difficult to define. Plus they all have uses. All emotions can lead to suffering and and all emotions can help decrease suffering. It really depends.

Even if you somehow made a fully valid and sound argument in favor of certain emotions being good or bad..... you wouldn't then be able to pin down or define those emotions accurately enough to actually make any practical use of your theory. What feels like one emotion to one person can be understood as something else to another person.

Besides desire, fear, liking and disliking I'm not even sure I've ever experienced any 'real' emotions. Despite what I may have thought in the past. I think they were just placebos + social conditioning making me believe I felt things that I didn't.