|
Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
|
 (July 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote:(July 29, 2011 at 2:20 pm)TheAtheistTroll Wrote: Tuba players are more of a cult than Atheists Are american sports so boring you need lots of other stuff going on so you dont have to watch the game? You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis. 
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee.  Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. RE: Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
August 7, 2011 at 5:49 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 5:59 am by Anymouse.)
(July 26, 2011 at 11:57 am)Lauren Wrote: You know, they are secretly all cults. The atheists because they use large words and preach the "Gospel of Nothing." Grammar cops because they all hang around together and preach the "Gospel of Correct Usage." Sports fans because they all hang around together, drink strong potions like Bud and Coors, and use esoteric language like "off-sides" and "personal foul." Poets because they hang out together and quote esoteric writers that no one can understand like e.e. cummings and Emily Dickenson. Art lovers because they all hang around sipping wine and speaking in tongues about paintings that no one else can see anything in. Politicians because they all hang around together in old buildings and speak with forked tongues. Mensans because they all hang around together and use large words like the grammar cops, but actually know what they mean. Computer geeks because no one understands what they read or say, even other computer geeks. We're all really members of cults (except Discordians, the one true religion.) James (July 26, 2011 at 1:23 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Similarly, some of their own arguments appear flawlessly presented in the words they use, so why would I make what would probably be a poorer attempt at making the same point when I can make it concisely and clearly by using their wording, or very similar? Just as many atheists here wish to hear the original thoughts of a Christian (or other) apologist here, rather than see a link to a well-spoken apologist who has thought the question out, I would imagine that religious people are the same. When they ask for your thoughts on atheism, they don't want parroting by giving a link to Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins or Stephen Hawking. They want your opinion, not plagiarism, just as atheists here do not want it from them. Just my guess. - James. "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."  RE: Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
August 7, 2011 at 9:01 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 9:04 am by Justtristo.)
We are the exact opposite of a cult, cults basically brain wash their followers so they can control their minds (and much besides). In cults any dissent is ruthlessly crushed, in cults there are often totalitarian leaders who regarded themselves as prophets or even gods.
If anybody claiming we at Atheist Forums are a cult, please have them have a look at the histories of the Jonestown and Branch Davidians so they know what real cults are like.
undefined
First of all, when you mentioned TAM it should have been specified that The Amazing Meeting is identified as a skeptics gathering. While many skeptics ARE atheists, there are some who believe in god. The point of TAM is to promote critical thinking, and if that critical thinking leads you to believe god is bullshit...well, you're in good company. It is not a cult gather having anything necessarily to do with atheists. Rather, it's a collection of nerdy people who are trying to inject science and the scientific method into what they do. If she wants to rail against the "Cult of Science," then that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Second of all, it sounds like your friend is uncomfortable with whatever she (she, right?) thinks atheism represents. Personally, I like talking about atheism because I spent 24 years being silent about the fact that whatever everyone was talking about around me (god) wasn't making any sense and I felt like there was something wrong with ME. I can't be the only one raised below the Mason-Dixon line who feels like this, so right off the bat we have people discussing it because they've suddenly discovered they're not weird for thinking what they do; they're not alone. Is this how cults start? Sounds more like an interest club to me. "Hey, *I* like chess!" "I like chess too!" "Let's get together and make a chess club and we'll talk about chess things and play chess and read about great chess players and their strategies!" Is this only different because we're talking about people's religions and world beliefs? A cult requires blind obedience to one leader. There isn't room for more. Since there are many on the board who think that Dawkins, Hitchens, or many others are individually assholes and not worth following, but other professed atheists are, I think that's reason enough to assume the group is too fractured to call a cult. It's like herding cats. Try getting a room of free-thinkers to agree on ANYTHING much less get them to DO anything all at the same time. ![[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fthesummerqueen%2FUntitled2_zpswaosccbr.png)  RE: Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
August 7, 2011 at 1:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 1:51 pm by MinusGod.)
" ...we just just parrot Richard Dawkins and need to learn to think for ourselves"
I might have to use that one. ↑ In all seriousness, when your friend says we should keep quiet it makes me think she doesn't have a good understanding of the harm religion causes in the world. Or she just doesn't care. The one thing "outspoken" atheists seem to have in common is the belief that the world would be a better place without religious influence, where people think rationally and have their morals grounded in reality and not some religious doctrine that appeals to a deity which hasn't even been demonstrated to exist.. If that's a worthy goal then it's going to take numbers of outspoken atheists to accomplish. It might be worthwhile to get her to understand why that's a worthy goal, and why keeping quiet is just enabling something inherently immoral to go unchallenged. **edited to add: Would she call the scientific community a cult? It seems her usage of the word "cult" as it applies to outspoken atheists is simply because of it's relevance to religion.  RE: Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
August 8, 2011 at 5:52 am
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2011 at 6:58 am by Girlysprite.)
There is also another important reason why the same quotes and arguments are used over and over again - a reason that I have not seen in this thread yet.
This reason is because the arguments and discussions are always repeated over and over again. Always the same old canards (edit: let me clrify - it's often creationists and religious people who start up the same old arguments). I mean, let's go through some of them, right? 1: Atheists have no morals because they don't have a god/bible which tells them what to do! 2: Atheism is a religion too! 3: Evolution can't be right because radio-dating gave a wrong number on this piece of fresh soil! 4: Evolution can't be right, cause have you ever seen a cat give birth to a dog? 5: Evolution is just a belief too! 6: Evolution is wrong because some scientists had some facts wrong like a 100 years ago! 7: Moondust prooves the earth is young! 8: Look, the bible/Koran has science in it (refers to very vague passage) Need I go on? Ask her *why* atheists should be 'silent and nice'. I mean, really, why? It is typical that many minority groups have often been told exactly that. Feminists, black people, homosexuals... I agree that atheists often keep repeating the same stuff, and to an outsider it may come across as sort of 'cult like'. Hell, even I sometimes had this impression. And you know, like any ´philosify´ that becomes popular, there are a lot of people who just parrot along, feel themselves much better and superior for following it and not understanding anything of it. Yeah, I do believe that there are quite some atheists that just take many of the arguments and quotes at facevalue, but don´t delve into the science of it themselves. But that does not mean that everyone should shut up and-or stop using the argument that work!
When I was a Christian, I was annoyed with dogmatic condescending Christians. Now that I'm an atheist, I'm annoyed with dogmatic condescending atheists. Just goes to prove that people are the same, regardless of what they do or don't believe.
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee. Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. RE: Arguing with friend on whether we're cult-like
August 8, 2011 at 6:40 am
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2011 at 6:40 am by Anymouse.)
(August 8, 2011 at 5:52 am)Girlysprite Wrote: Mostly, Girlysprite, I get the impression that atheists (and others) repeat the same things over and over to Christians because they keep asking the same questions. But rarely listen to the answers. Nowhere in my many readings of the Bible have I ever come across commandments nor parables from Jesus nor writings in Paul's epistles that say "Thou shalt not use logic," nor "Thou shalt not propound evolution," nor even "Thou shalt not think." Any Christian who holds forth that their Scriptures, or their Bible, or their God is opposed to scientific endeavour, or evolution theory, or logic and rhetoric is putting words in God's mouth. If their God cannot speak for himself, if they have to put words in his mouth, he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. And if he does not have those two qualities they hold forth as the reason they are worshiping him, why are they worshiping him? Just saying . . . James "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her." (August 8, 2011 at 6:40 am)Anymouse Wrote:(August 8, 2011 at 5:52 am)Girlysprite Wrote: That is actually what I meant. I edited my post to clarify this. The list that I made in my previous posts are some of the most common questions and topics that religious people launch on atheist forums.
When I was a Christian, I was annoyed with dogmatic condescending Christians. Now that I'm an atheist, I'm annoyed with dogmatic condescending atheists. Just goes to prove that people are the same, regardless of what they do or don't believe.
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee. Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. (August 8, 2011 at 6:59 am)Girlysprite Wrote: That is actually what I meant. I edited my post to clarify this. The list that I made in my previous posts are some of the most common questions and topics that religious people launch on atheist forums. I must have missed the brief on this. Even as a theistic/non-Abrahamic religious person that finds himself more often than not siding with atheists, it just seems that the same list of never-ending questions come up. When the same answers are repeatedly given (because they make sense), the accusation is then, "See? Atheism is a religion. Or a cult. Or an evil mind-control cult. Everyone says the same thing." Of course, they would never apply that accusation to themselves. . . . James "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."
Religious tradition has always dealt with critics in the same way. Perhaps they can no longer burn you to death for the offense of apostasy, but they would like for you to be as silent as though you had been. Silence is equivalent to consent.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
|
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
|
