(December 28, 2017 at 10:45 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 28, 2017 at 10:28 am)Shell B Wrote: If you're going to say anything negative by a feminist is taken out of context, an honest conversation about this isn't possible. If you're going to say every single MRA is a monster, an honest conversation isn't possible.

^^^

I know, you mindlessly agree with strawmen arguments.

(December 28, 2017 at 10:37 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: So, if you haven't seen the movie mentioned in the OP, this video might fill you in on where the documentarian is coming from. A little bit chicken little, but she made a couple valid points. I don't see why changing her mind about MRAs caused her to renounce feminism though. Assuming that every single point made by the MRAs was correct, that's no reason to conclude that women have nothing to fight for in society. Her characterization of MRAs was as a movement not opposed to feminism. However, the result of MRAs gaining her sympathies was for her to discontinue her feminist activism. Odd...

My bold. Thats not at all what she said. She said there are both legitimate women's issues AND legitimate men's issues. And that she supports BOTH. She doesn't mention the word equalitarianism, but that's what she described in the end.

Quote:

Hey, good ted talk. Can't say I disagree with anything she says.

So I just had a look at some of the threads in the Reddit group for "The Red Pill", purportedly a subgroup of "MRAs", and all I can say is what a disgusting group. Is this the same Red Pill movement referenced in the documentary title? Or is it just a coincidence?

(December 28, 2017 at 7:07 am)pool the matey Wrote:

Thumpalumpacus Wrote:. It seems to me that MRAs tend to be farther right than the broad swathe of feminists are to the left.

This is actually wrong, they did a survey on reddit or something and the result they got was feminists are most likely leaning left but mras were a much!much more diverse group.

Link pls.

Grandizer Wrote:Out of context, you mean? Yeah, I'm very well aware that anti-feminists have come up with huge lists of out-of-context quotes, but I care a lot about context as well.

There is also another quote of a famous feminist saying men should all be put into concentration camps or something, another time I read about a feminist teacher purposely lower grades for boys, discourage them to learn, give them less grades and do the opposite for girls because she wanted to level the playing field(no, this didn't happen 50 years ago) and she was posting everything for internet points from her buddies...this feminism thing isn't really all Holy-like as many like to think..it can drive people crazy as well, the crazies are called "Feminazis"..because they're crazies and they're extremists, like the kind of mras that want to keep women as sex slaves or like the kind of mras that think sex bots with make women obsolete (that one always cracks me up haha) , most of the time when people say they're anti feminist what they mean is they're anti Feminazis but these same anti feminists will have views that reflect very feministy principles, they just don't like the method by which these principles are carried out, the other side(anti mra side) is also like this, when they say they're anti mra they mean they are anti mra extremists, but the one difference I've noticed is they completely disagree with the principles of mras as well, I agree with a lot of problems mras point out as well as a lot of problems feminists point out, I don't understand why this us vs them fight is happening, instead of all these feminism, egalitarian, mra and other bullshit I wish people would just be humane.

---

(December 28, 2017 at 11:49 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 28, 2017 at 7:07 am)pool the matey Wrote: This is actually wrong, they did a survey on reddit or something and the result they got was feminists are most likely leaning left but mras were a much!much more diverse group.

Link pls.

Don't have it, try to see if you can find it by googling, I saw this thing some time wayyyy back, don't have the link or remember the specifics.

(December 28, 2017 at 11:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thats not at all what she said. She said there are both legitimate women's issues AND legitimate men's issues. And that she supports BOTH. She doesn't mention the word equalitarianism, but that's what she described in the end.

My issue was when she said this:

Quote:"It's no secret now that I no longer call myself a feminist..."

Why not? Just because she discovered MRAs have a point? Why stop calling herself a feminist? I didn't really criticize her for it, but I did point out that it was odd. After all, the thrust of her argument was that MRAs are not opposed to feminism but are rather focusing on men's causes that need attention.

That's what I was saying before... If you advocate for more fairness in custody hearings, you are a men's rights activist. If your view is that "feminism has gone too far" this does nothing to advance men's issues-- it is just standing in the way of women's advancement. One is actual men's rights activism. The other is not.

(December 28, 2017 at 12:05 pm)pool the matey Wrote: There is also another quote of a famous feminist saying men should all be put into concentration camps or something,

After some Googling, it seems like you are referring to Julie Bindel. Yeah, I can see why some would consider her nuts, but it doesn't seem like feminists are generally in favor of her more controversial/disturbing views, which makes me happy. That said, she has done a lot of good work for women, and I will not disregard her achievements just because of those views.

So we have feminist individuals who espouse extremist views about men. Do we have a somewhat organized online group of such feminists? Or is it just individuals here and there? I really would like to visit one, just so I can compare them in terms of extremity of views to MRA groups (like the Red Pill) and see if they are so abundant that they form a significant part of feminism.

(December 28, 2017 at 12:29 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(December 28, 2017 at 11:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thats not at all what she said. She said there are both legitimate women's issues AND legitimate men's issues. And that she supports BOTH. She doesn't mention the word equalitarianism, but that's what she described in the end.

My issue was when she said this:

Quote:"It's no secret now that I no longer call myself a feminist..."

Why not? Just because she discovered MRAs have a point? Why stop calling herself a feminist? I didn't really criticize her for it, but I did point out that it was odd. After all, the thrust of her argument was that MRAs are not opposed to feminism but are rather focusing on men's causes that need attention.

That's what I was saying before... If you advocate for more fairness in custody hearings, you are a men's rights activist. If your view is that "feminism has gone too far" this does nothing to advance men's issues-- it is just standing in the way of women's advancement. One is actual men's rights activism. The other is not.

My bold

From what i understand it's because she now advocates both men's and women's issues, rather than just focusing on one side of the fence. She dropped the title of feminism for a more general form of gender equality.

(December 28, 2017 at 12:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold

From what i understand it's because she now advocates both men's and women's issues, rather than just focusing on one side of the fence. She dropped the title of feminism for a more general form of gender equality.

That's what feminism generally is. Gender equality. The Red Pill guys don't seem to give two shits about advancing men's rights, they just want to have the "right" to be misogynists without shame.

(December 28, 2017 at 12:37 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(December 28, 2017 at 12:05 pm)pool the matey Wrote: There is also another quote of a famous feminist saying men should all be put into concentration camps or something,

After some Googling, it seems like you are referring to Julie Bindel. Yeah, I can see why some would consider her nuts, but it doesn't seem like feminists are generally in favor of her more controversial/disturbing views, which makes me happy. That said, she has done a lot of good work for women, and I will not disregard her achievements just because of those views.

So we have feminist individuals who espouse extremist views about men. Do we have a somewhat organized online group of such feminists? Or is it just individuals here and there? I really would like to visit one, just so I can compare them in terms of extremity of views to MRA groups (like the Red Pill) and see if they are so abundant that they form a significant part of feminism.

Not sure about online groups of feminists tbf , I don't give mind to these things anymore, it's boring for me now. But one thing I can say is the power of mra about starts and stops within a few internet sites but the power of feminists extend up to the freaking UN, someone said that it was "laughable" that feminists had more power than mra, that is almost too ridiculous. Emma freaking Watson talked for feminism in the UN!!! The most power display I've seen from mra was in a few youtube videos lmao... The difference in say reach, support, political power, etc etc etc all incredible is in favor of feminism that it is not even comparable(they've probably turned it into a business and profiting heavily from it by now) . All that aside, if you really want a hands on experience with a feminazi group you're much better off asking someone that actually keeps in touch with these things.