We can deceive ourselves to know for certain something when we don't. 

What is the way to know? I say sheer honesty is the way to know for sure.

You can say well you have to assess, that is true. But before you will bother to re-asses or asses, you have to be honest to yourself and say "do I really know?".


It's also the same when we know something for certain but we trick ourselves we don't know nor what we should know inside and realize we know and take the mantle of not knowing. We become ignorant of what otherwise we are certain of.

Again, I propose the way out is sheer honesty.

And sheer honesty with sincerity will cause us to search and eventually only hold to firmly what we know for certain.


Now a person might say, there is no certainty, there is just levels of knowledge, levels of justification and levels of non-justification.

Aside from 1+1=2 is a certainty.  I think this is foolish, because shades of grey as possible only because black and white is possible.


Without possibility of certainty, there is no coming close to it. And without possibility of ignorance, there is no coming close to it.

And deception is ok, and forgiven, but not when it's stubborn to the extent it hates the truth it is certain of and becomes rebellious against it.   This is where you crossed the limits, and then right and wrong being irrelevant except as suits the desires of the person.

Certainty stems from self-bias, which is why it is best to state, "I don't know".

Atheists are not certain that god does not exist, something most theists keep forgetting. Atheists merely lack belief/faith in god(s).

No matter what you tell yourself, MK, I don’t believe in god.

But do you agree with what is stated in this thread.

Let's not discuss God, but just what is in this thread.

(March 30, 2018 at 8:57 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But do you agree with what is stated in this thread.

Let's not discuss God, but just what is in this thread.

I have hardly a clue what you are talking about in this OP because your writing is almost incoherent.  My impression is that you think people are lying to themselves about stuff.  Or something like that.

(March 30, 2018 at 9:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 8:57 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But do you agree with what is stated in this thread.

Let's not discuss God, but just what is in this thread.

I have hardly a clue what you are talking about in this OP because your writing is almost incoherent.  My impression is that you think people are lying to themselves about stuff.  Or something like that.

I am saying, certainty and honesty go together. When we know something for certain, we do because are honest about it.

So the way to hold to only what is for certain, is through sheer honesty to oneself and others.

(March 30, 2018 at 9:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 9:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I have hardly a clue what you are talking about in this OP because your writing is almost incoherent.  My impression is that you think people are lying to themselves about stuff.  Or something like that.

I am saying, certainty and honesty go together. When we know something for certain, we do because are honest about it.

So the way to hold to only what is for certain, is through sheer honesty to oneself and others.

Sure, generally speaking it is in our best interest to be honest with ourselves.  Is that idea meant to be controversial?

(March 30, 2018 at 10:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 9:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I am saying, certainty and honesty go together. When we know something for certain, we do because are honest about it.

So the way to hold to only what is for certain, is through sheer honesty to oneself and others.

Sure, generally speaking it is in our best interest to be honest with ourselves.  Is that idea meant to be controversial?

Ok. So we agree. Topic done.

(March 30, 2018 at 10:34 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 10:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sure, generally speaking it is in our best interest to be honest with ourselves.  Is that idea meant to be controversial?

Ok. So we agree. Topic done.

Lol, why didn’t you just say that in the OP?!

(March 30, 2018 at 11:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 10:34 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Ok. So we agree. Topic done.

Lol, why didn’t you just say that in the OP?!

*smiles*

In the past, I said the same thing, but everyone said honesty and true knowledge were unrelated and had nothing to do with each other.

To be certain and know you are, you have to be honest to yourself.

I'm glad we agreed.