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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:23 pm
(September 3, 2011 at 10:55 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: errr...
quick interrupt here Fred...you asked what constitutes "proof" you were given two, written references from contempories and archological evidence. Apart from these so called holy txts there is no evidence
That's exactly what I'm seeking to determine. What constitutes proof/evidence? It seems odd to insist there's no evidence when there's not even a consensus as to what it even is. That's why atheism seems as dogmatic as the religions it dismisses.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:25 pm
There actually is a consensus. Zues doesn't exist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:29 pm
(September 3, 2011 at 11:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Well, if we wanted to look for evidence of god, the best place to start from would be the myths and narratives about that god. Which is exactly what we've done, in effect. Parse the claims, study the subject very closely. Pretty much the process of removing lightning from the hand of Zues. If we can't, then we have something to talk about.
Let's posit that the myths are just that, myths. But that only shows that the myths are not literally true. It in no way negates the idea of God. It only negates the myths. In that regard, I'm in accord, but that's hardly the whole picture.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:31 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Actually it is the whole picture. Myths are the only places we find gods (and we're always looking). If you don't believe that myths can be said to be literally true, what exactly are you left with? What would be the difference between Aesops Fables and the NT?
(perhaps religions should come with disclaimers?)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:32 pm
(September 3, 2011 at 11:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: There actually is a consensus. Zues doesn't exist.
Heh. There a deep section to this pool or is it all shallows?
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:33 pm
Poor Zeus... 
My Favourites have always been Dionysus......Thor, handy with a hammer, .... 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:35 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:36 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You said you wanted intelligent discussion? Would you prefer an echo chamber? Are you willing to argue for the existence of Zues?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm
(September 3, 2011 at 11:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Actually it is the whole picture. Myths are the only places we find gods (and we're always looking). If you don't believe that myths can be said to be literally true, what exactly are you left with? What would be the difference between Aesops Fables and the NT?
(perhaps religions should come with disclaimers?)
You really think myths are the total package? They are only the exoteric husk.
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:40 pm
(September 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm)Fred Wrote: You really think myths are the total package? They are only the exoteric husk.
*Curious...
Please explain the above statement
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:40 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The observable exoteric husk of what is otherwise unobserved. They are the whole picture until someone shows us otherwise. I can point to the myths, I can hold the text in my hand. They exist. Now, where are the gods they talk about. we checked this place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Olympus
Just so happens, we didn't find any gods. If you have a hot lead, drop it on me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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