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Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
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Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
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RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:43 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
They aren't? You have evidence? I'm not even attempting to be an ass about this. The myths exist, but the gods therein have never been found. In fact not only have they never been found, the things they we're given credit (or responsibility) for happen to be perfectly natural in every case ever investigated.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 3, 2011 at 11:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The observable exoteric husk of what is otherwise unobserved. They are the whole picture until someone shows us otherwise. I can point to the myths, I can hold the text in my hand. They exist. Now, where are the gods they talk about. we checked this place: Good call Rhythm .... but I was asking Fred for HIS explanation/ interpretation. "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
If you want a factual study of the formation and function of religion, cargo cults are pretty much the best thing to jump right into. Since they happened relatively recently we have tons of documentation. A rarity with religions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 3, 2011 at 11:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The observable exoteric husk of what is otherwise unobserved. They are the whole picture until someone shows us otherwise. I can point to the myths, I can hold the text in my hand. They exist. Now, where are the gods they talk about. we checked this place: Well, that's your problem right there. It's not that there isn't any evidence, it's that you aren't looking in the right place. When you say unobserved, unobserved by who? So far, there's no cogent answer to what even constitutes proof or why, just the repeated insistence that it isn't there. I know it's a sever sore point when folks point out that materialistic atheism is akin to religion as far as being faith-based, but there's a reason why it comes up over and over, and not from fundies. Instead of dismissing it as "not this shit again," it would be interesting to examine why the charge keeps coming up.
Is there another mountain? Google map it for me, and I'll send the boys over with cameras.
NOT...THIS.....SHIT.....AGAIN.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:52 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:53 pm by KichigaiNeko.)
(September 3, 2011 at 11:50 pm)Fred Wrote: Well, that's your problem right there. It's not that there isn't any evidence, it's that you aren't looking in the right place. When you say unobserved, unobserved by who? Fantastic!! And these people are?? (September 3, 2011 at 11:50 pm)Fred Wrote: So far, there's no cogent answer to what even constitutes proof or why, just the repeated insistence that it isn't there. I know it's a sever sore point when folks point out that materialistic atheism is akin to religion as far as being faith-based, but there's a reason why it comes up over and over, and not from fundies. Instead of dismissing it as "not this shit again," it would be interesting to examine why the charge keeps coming up. Very glib answer but you have not addressed the question I raised. "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
(September 3, 2011 at 11:40 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote:(September 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm)Fred Wrote: You really think myths are the total package? They are only the exoteric husk. Each of the major religions have an exoteric shell and an esoteric core. The shells rattle and screech in discord, as they are faith-based and culturally situated. The esoteric cores, however, are based on direct experience and hence largely in accord. They have nothing to do with the myths per se. RE: Looking for an intelligent, rational discussion re atheism
September 3, 2011 at 11:55 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2011 at 11:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Here's how this works. A claim to faith is essentially unassailable. Sure, people could question your reasoning, but in the end, you've already declared faith. End of. Now.....if you claim evidence, you have to provide it. If you do not, it's safe to say it doesn't exist. That's how existence works, it's a pass/fail test. There are no shades of grey.
Each religion "claims" to have an esoteric core. For which they are unable to produce substance. No myths no religion. No Christ without Christ-Myth. Honestly, find evidence for these things outside of myth. Until then, they're just myths.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(September 3, 2011 at 11:52 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote:(September 3, 2011 at 11:50 pm)Fred Wrote: Well, that's your problem right there. It's not that there isn't any evidence, it's that you aren't looking in the right place. When you say unobserved, unobserved by who? I don't know what was glib about it. Seems straight forward to me. Regardless, the folks who have observed are the folks following the esoteric systems I mentioned in my last post, the yogis, sufis, the zen folk, the Christian mystics, kabbalahist, et. al. |
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