(May 4, 2018 at 6:30 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 5:51 am)CDF47 Wrote: The attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something [snipped] that produce specific effects

(My editing to make it clearer what you are saying)


Right. Communicated. It has to be communicated. Which means that there needs to be something else identifying something as information and responding to it.

So you for example are identifying the DNA as information. Smoke signals for example is just smoke without someone looking out for it and responding to it having previously agreed that the smoke signal must mean something. But then this is distinct from the concept of information used in quantum mechanics which is very different from what you are talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information

Quote:Information is any entity or form that resolves uncertainty or provides the answer to a question of some kind. It is thus related to data and knowledge, as data represents values attributed to parameters, and knowledge signifies understanding of real things or abstract concepts.[1] As it regards data, the information's existence is not necessarily coupled to an observer (it exists beyond an event horizon, for example), while in the case of knowledge, the information requires a cognitive observer.

What this means is you are the one determining that DNA carries information, and then saying that because it has information that there must be a designer.

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(May 4, 2018 at 6:12 am)CDF47 Wrote: DNA contains information.  Information based on human observation always comes from a mind or an intelligence.  Therefore, DNA came from a Mind or Intelligence. 

Information within DNA is not based on human observation.

The information is 4-digit digital information A, C, T, & G nucleotide bases.

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(May 4, 2018 at 6:35 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 3:45 am)CDF47 Wrote: Information always comes from a mind or intelligent being on this earth.  

Not true. You find information on climate in tree rings. You're not really prepared for this.

That's a living system containing DNA.

(May 4, 2018 at 6:12 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:08 am)pocaracas Wrote: Read again what I said. I'm not missing anything. I might be skimming through major details with words like "physics" and "chemistry", but I am most certainly not missing anything.
If scientists speak of "information" in the DNA molecule, they do so in a casual way. Certain DNA sequences are prototypes for certain body parts, while the whole DNA molecule is the prototype for a complete body.
Look at the words you used here:
"acts like" - meaning that it seems to your pattern seeking mind that the pattern of manufacturing plant applies to the ribosome. In a way, yes... materials come in and the prototype is copied and something is built according to that prototype. In another way, no - the process obeys simple biochemistry and physics. No reasoning intent required.


But hey... what do I know? I'm just an internet guy...

Why don't you look at water for design?
What is up with that?? When it turns solid due to lower temperatures, it expands?! None other material does that! water is magical!



Well then... is this your 47th attempt at a username?
Or maybe you were 47 when you first came up with your username, years ago.... that's usually how it goes.

DNA contains information.  Information based on human observation always comes from a mind or an intelligence.  Therefore, DNA came from a Mind or Intelligence.  This information in DNA by the way, is the most highly complex and specific information in the known universe.

Let's see if your way works.
DNA does not contain information. It contains a biochemical prototype for a life form.
The information that cars driving by on a road can crack open my nuts was conveyed to these crows by which mind or intelligence? How intelligent are the crows that they can understand such information?





Your turn.

(May 4, 2018 at 6:50 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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(May 4, 2018 at 6:35 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Not true. You find information on climate in tree rings. You're not really prepared for this.

That's a living system containing DNA.

The DNA doesn't tell us what the weather was like 5,000 years ago.

And he continues to repeat IDiot dogma

(May 4, 2018 at 6:50 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:30 am)Mathilda Wrote: Information within DNA is not based on human observation.

The information is 4-digit digital information A, C, T, & G nucleotide bases.

No. It's humans labelling it A, C, T & G. These are actually distinct chemical structures. Again, your argument boils down to pointing at something, saying it's information and therefore because it's information that must mean that there is a god.

(May 4, 2018 at 6:50 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:35 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Not true. You find information on climate in tree rings. You're not really prepared for this.

That's a living system containing DNA.

So?

(May 4, 2018 at 6:54 am)izheruk Wrote: And he continues to repeat IDiot dogma

The fun part is finding which site he's using and getting two answers ahead. 

OP, this rock has all kinds of interesting information:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:59 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:54 am)izheruk Wrote: And he continues to repeat IDiot dogma

The fun part is finding which site he's using and getting two answers ahead. 

OP, this rock has all kinds of interesting information:

Oh yeah he's parroting talking points from a site . His response are cookie cutter in the extreme.

(May 4, 2018 at 7:05 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

(May 4, 2018 at 6:59 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The fun part is finding which site he's using and getting two answers ahead. 

OP, this rock has all kinds of interesting information:

Oh yeah he's parroting talking points from a site . His response are cookie cutter in the extreme.

You mean he's not ready to cope with the idea that Genesis may havev happened on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLANET?

I think what happens is that the religionist reads up a lot of the same type of sites and books, all written by other religionists, and thinks that they are well versed in the subject and ready to deal with the heathens. They expect to come on here and confound us all with arguments that we haven't heard before.

Instead they find out that they have been sitting in an echo chamber and we have heard the same arguments a thousand times before. They then get bombarded with concepts and questions that are entirely new to them and either slink off or desperately repeat themselves without understanding what's being said to them.

Is this the argument then?

There exists complex things about which there is much to say (i.e., information).
Therefore that information was specified by a specifier (i.e., creator)?

Seems like simple question begging to me.