The path and what it calls to and is connected to and built from is not an illusion or fantasy, but something, all human rely on, along with the watchful sight of God.

Those not on the path, dress themselves of it's light what they wish. And those on the path, well, they are guided on clear proof from their Lord.

There is no doubt light that is truth and connected to an absolute judging source is true.

Very few humans don't testify to that, and although ad-populum doesn't mean anything, to be under illusion you guys are majority because of this forum.

(November 16, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Okay, most of the theists who come here are suffering from something if only a persecution complex.  But I'd like to know what we atheists think is wrong with theistic thinking in most cases.  Your gut reaction will do fine but feel free to say why you think that.

Theistic thinking is off because believers are:

1) suffering from a delusion, defined here as a persistent false belief;

2) under the spell of an illusion, defined as misinterpreting an actual phenomenon;

3) just plain crazy;

4) or something else altogether, please elaborate.

5) Of course I should include a fuck yourself with your damned poll option too.  

---

But I didn't, fuck you too.

---

Now there may be a variety of causes for the wrong thinking but here we are looking for a diagnosis of the variety of bad thinking they ended up with.  I'm going to limit you to one choice for the reason you think is most often to blame.  Also I'm making the poll public just because I'm nosy like that.

I know you posed this question to atheists, but I'm going to answer anyway! Absolutely nothing is wrong with theist beliefs in and of themselves.

What's wrong is when theism interferes with getting along with others, or if theism inhibits progress. If you think Jesus died on the cross to "save you," and you're a productive, well-adapted, law-abiding member of society (bonus points if you can also solve the clean water crisis in India), then why should I give a shit that you think this thing is true? Knock yourself out. I have real problems to worry about and your being wrong about this doesn't rise to the level of needing my attention.

We start to have a huge problem if someone can't separate their religious values from their RL values. If you can get academia --- Shit, if you can get 51% of mainstream scientists to agree that your creation crap warrants serious consideration then I'm all for it. Give us the evidence, and let's evaluate it like adults. I am more than open minded to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the world really was created in six 24-hour days.

But your religious shit doesn't supercede my science shit, and those are the fucking rules.

(November 17, 2018 at 1:13 am)Aliza Wrote:

(November 16, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Okay, most of the theists who come here are suffering from something if only a persecution complex.  But I'd like to know what we atheists think is wrong with theistic thinking in most cases.  Your gut reaction will do fine but feel free to say why you think that.

Theistic thinking is off because believers are:

1) suffering from a delusion, defined here as a persistent false belief;

2) under the spell of an illusion, defined as misinterpreting an actual phenomenon;

3) just plain crazy;

4) or something else altogether, please elaborate.

5) Of course I should include a fuck yourself with your damned poll option too.  

---

But I didn't, fuck you too.

---

Now there may be a variety of causes for the wrong thinking but here we are looking for a diagnosis of the variety of bad thinking they ended up with.  I'm going to limit you to one choice for the reason you think is most often to blame.  Also I'm making the poll public just because I'm nosy like that.

I know you posed this question to atheists, but I'm going to answer anyway! Absolutely nothing is wrong with theist beliefs in and of themselves.

What's wrong is when theism interferes with getting along with others, or if theism inhibits progress. If you think Jesus died on the cross to "save you," and you're a productive, well-adapted, law-abiding member of society (bonus points if you can also solve the clean water crisis in India), then why should I give a shit that you think this thing is true? Knock yourself out. I have real problems to worry about and your being wrong about this doesn't rise to the level of needing my attention.

We start to have a huge problem if someone can't separate their religious values from their RL values. If you can get academia --- Shit, if you can get 51% of mainstream scientists to agree that your creation crap warrants serious consideration then I'm all for it. Give us the evidence, and let's evaluate it like adults. I am more than open minded to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the world really was created in six 24-hour days.

But your religious shit doesn't supercede my science shit, and those are the fucking rules.

---

And by the way, the thing that's wrong with a some beliefs held by atheists is that some of them think all theists believe the same thing!

---

First I'll address the spoiler. At the most basic level, theists think a god exists. That's the common thread among all theists, by definition.

After that any theist can hold any number of beliefs about anything involving their god, their religion, etc.

Yes, there is something wrong when you hold a belief to be true without any supporting evidence. When a large segment of a voting population share a common delusion or large segments of a population have different confrontational delusions, this is never good for a productive, law abiding society.

And when you mix delusional laws that they believe were given to them by their imaginary god with secular laws, you often don't get a well behaved individual.

You get someone who wants to impose their delusions upon others and wants to inact their delusional laws upon the rest of society.

Believing whatever you want is fine if you're living on an island by yourself, but people tend to interact with each other. We have to work together and it helps if we all can agree on what is real and what is fantasy.

Because when the jesus freaks try to kill you in hopes of saving your soul, it doesn't make for a productive society.

(November 16, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Whateverist Wrote: [snip]

1) suffering from a delusion, defined here as a persistent false belief;

2) under the spell of an illusion, defined as misinterpreting an actual phenomenon;

[snip]

I'm going to limit you to one choice for the reason you think is most often to blame.

.... so wait. Which do I click if I think they are misinterpreting actual phenomena because of a persistent false belief, and that persistent false belief is the result of misinterpreting actual phenomena, and on and on in an endlessly self-reinforcing cycle?

....

YES I'M OVERTHINKING THIS that's what I do okay?

Why is the subject specific to theistic beliefs? Shouldn't one be interested in having a conversation about irrational beliefs period? Irrational beliefs that many atheists here hold?

It isn't due to their irrationality that theistic beliefs make themselves problematic - as I mentioned before..we all have some irrational/illusory/what have you beliefs.

The trouble is that theistic beliefs are the cognitive equivalent of tossing a mouse into a snake pit. The people who hold them are incapable of not acting on them, and they amplify the worst tendencies in all of us.

(November 17, 2018 at 7:18 am)Reltzik Wrote:

(November 16, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Whateverist Wrote: [snip]

1) suffering from a delusion, defined here as a persistent false belief;

2) under the spell of an illusion, defined as misinterpreting an actual phenomenon;

[snip]

I'm going to limit you to one choice for the reason you think is most often to blame.

.... so wait.  Which do I click if I think they are misinterpreting actual phenomena because of a persistent false belief, and that persistent false belief is the result of misinterpreting actual phenomena, and on and on in an endlessly self-reinforcing cycle?

....

YES I'M OVERTHINKING THIS that's what I do okay?

Hey, you do you.  Wouldn't have it any other way.

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(November 17, 2018 at 8:31 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Why is the subject specific to theistic beliefs? Shouldn't one be interested in having a conversation about irrational beliefs period? Irrational beliefs that many atheists here hold?

That will be revealed soon enough.  I'm giving everyone at least 6 more hours to weigh in.  This poll is about theistic beliefs.  If you want to ask about irrational beliefs, fine with me if you start that poll.

(November 17, 2018 at 12:41 am)KevinM1 Wrote:

(November 16, 2018 at 10:24 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Gae Bolga sounds totally up Kit's alley.

It's just a fancy way for someone to say they have BDE    

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(November 17, 2018 at 12:44 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The path and what it calls to and is connected to and built from is not an illusion or fantasy, but something, all human rely on, along with the watchful sight of God.

Those not on the path, dress themselves of it's light what they wish. And those on the path, well, they are guided on clear proof from their Lord.

There is no doubt light that is truth and connected to an absolute judging source is true.

And you would know this how exactly?

(November 17, 2018 at 6:56 am)Rahn127 Wrote:

(November 17, 2018 at 1:13 am)Aliza Wrote: I know you posed this question to atheists, but I'm going to answer anyway! Absolutely nothing is wrong with theist beliefs in and of themselves.

What's wrong is when theism interferes with getting along with others, or if theism inhibits progress. If you think Jesus died on the cross to "save you," and you're a productive, well-adapted, law-abiding member of society (bonus points if you can also solve the clean water crisis in India), then why should I give a shit that you think this thing is true? Knock yourself out. I have real problems to worry about and your being wrong about this doesn't rise to the level of needing my attention.

We start to have a huge problem if someone can't separate their religious values from their RL values. If you can get academia --- Shit, if you can get 51% of mainstream scientists to agree that your creation crap warrants serious consideration then I'm all for it. Give us the evidence, and let's evaluate it like adults. I am more than open minded to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the world really was created in six 24-hour days.

But your religious shit doesn't supercede my science shit, and those are the fucking rules.

---

And by the way, the thing that's wrong with a some beliefs held by atheists is that some of them think all theists believe the same thing!

---

First I'll address the spoiler. At the most basic level, theists think a god exists. That's the common thread among all theists, by definition.

After that any theist can hold any number of beliefs about anything involving their god, their religion, etc.

Yes, there is something wrong when you hold a belief to be true without any supporting evidence. When a large segment of a voting population share a common delusion or large segments of a population have different confrontational delusions, this is never good for a productive, law abiding society.

And when you mix delusional laws that they believe were given to them by their imaginary god with secular laws, you often don't get a well behaved individual.

You get someone who wants to impose their delusions upon others and wants to inact their delusional laws upon the rest of society.

Believing whatever you want is fine if you're living on an island by yourself, but people tend to interact with each other. We have to work together and it helps if we all can agree on what is real and what is fantasy.

Because when the jesus freaks try to kill you in hopes of saving your soul, it doesn't make for a productive society.

Suppose a segment of the voting population votes in favor of civil rights because their religious beliefs say that all people are the same while another group of voters believe that Hitler’s evidence for racial supremacy holds water and they vote to support legislation to suppress non-white races. Neo-Nazis think they have evidence, not faith.

I just don’t see theism as the root of all the world’s problems. I think assholery is the problem and yes, theists can be real assholes. –But so can other groups of people.

Theism isn't the root of all the worlds problems.  Theism only -amplifies- the root of all of our problems.  

Even the example you presented..is problematic.  If the reason that all people deserve equal rights is that a magic book says so...that argument falls just as magic book falls. Those who assert as much have doomed civil rights to failure.

Look around you, the magic book folks have decided that civil rights aren't all that important after all. MAGA jesus says bow to the king.