He posted again, don't think he's one of the "constant forum presence" types.

So it would seem mate!

How are the kids??

Little bastards...lol. They're doing great. Getting into shit and tearing things apart. They're torturing their grandmother as we speak.

(September 30, 2011 at 9:37 am)Rhythm Wrote: Little bastards...lol. They're doing great. Getting into shit and tearing things apart. They're torturing their grandmother as we speak.

Oh dear!!

Being 'normal "Honey Badger" children' then??

(September 30, 2011 at 3:12 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Shell: sometimes when everyone is throwing rocks and you're engaged solely in throwing rocks back, as the conversations with Zaki have all sadly devolved into, such is the lack of actual opposition here, genuine questions like yours tried to be, with just the smallest of insults added for good measure, tend to become collateral damage.

Excuse me, Frodo. Here is my original post to Zaki. Please tell me where I insulted him. I'm sorry. I'm simply getting a little peeved at being a ventriloquist dummy.

(September 29, 2011 at 2:54 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(September 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Of-course, if you could offer conclusive proof for His non-existence that would settle the matter. But you can't, can you?

It's impossible to offer conclusive proof for the nonexistence of something. For example, a colony of unicorns could live in a galaxy far, far away and we would have no way of knowing. Duh.

Not that it matters, as you can't offer conclusive proof of his existence can you? The point is, if you claim god exists, you have to prove it. If you don't believe other people's assertions that god exists, you have nothing to prove.

---

(September 29, 2011 at 6:22 am)Zaki Aminu Wrote: There is a hierachy in Existence. Some things are absolutely dependent for their existence on others.

As far as I can tell, that is true of all things. This is a symbiotic -- if you'll pardon me using the term rather loosely -- universe. So, basically, everything is less than real, based on your beliefs. I wish you could name one thing that did not rely on anything else for its very existence. I might just be drawing a blank. However, if you cannot, then this ultimate reality is just a construct of an overactive, but shortsighted imagination. Not that I have a prejudice against such things. Imagine away, Zaki.

If you mean everyone is disagreeing with him when you say, "Everyone is throwing rocks." there is hardly anything I can do about it. If Zaki cannot handle opposition gracefully, he has to grow as a person or leave, which is unfortunate, but what are you going to do? I can't hold the hand of every newb here, Frodo. There are more and more of them and I swear they are trolling more often than not. I don't have time to tell Zaki how to handle himself. As for everyone else, they know the rules here.

Quote:I'm sure if everyone stopped kicking the heretic for a moment, and we let him breathe, he could respond nicely to you. As the mob is in full swing with this one already, I don't see them letting up.

Me I'm just sad at the lack of actual resistance we have here.

You know, in other forums, this "mob" nonsense is never mentioned. Why? Because people are not silly enough to forget to count how many people one newbie actually is. Any number of people opposing a newbs assertions is going to read like a "mob." Regulars have every right to respond and I can not limit them by a certain number. When I am a newb at a forum, I try not to insult everyone by putting words in their mouths the moment I get there. Oddly enough, the mob typically dissipates after welcoming me. Interesting how that works.

Zaki Wrote:Oh dear! I've upset you, haven't I?

No, but you have lost all credibility with me. Your latest post does nothing to help that.

Zaki)Look, this is easily cleared up: Are you now agreeing that the American continent [i Wrote:actually already existed BEFORE Europeans even knew about its existence?[/i] And that belief or non-belief in its existence by Europeans was utterly irrelevant with regard to whether it actually existed BEFORE its discovery by Europeans or not? A simple yes or no will do - but take your time.

Actually, a yes or no won't do. We were not even discussing a continent, were we? You are not even adept at dodging questions and putting words in people's mouths. Do not continue to misquote people.

(September 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 3:12 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Shell: sometimes when everyone is throwing rocks and you're engaged solely in throwing rocks back, as the conversations with Zaki have all sadly devolved into, such is the lack of actual opposition here, genuine questions like yours tried to be, with just the smallest of insults added for good measure, tend to become collateral damage.

Excuse me, Frodo. Here is my original post to Zaki. Please tell me where I insulted him. I'm sorry. I'm simply getting a little peeved at being a ventriloquist dummy.

If you read what you've quoted me saying, you wouldn't ask that question now would you.

(September 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm)Shell B Wrote: If you mean everyone is disagreeing with him when you say, "Everyone is throwing rocks." there is hardly anything I can do about it. If Zaki cannot handle opposition gracefully, he has to grow as a person or leave, which is unfortunate, but what are you going to do? I can't hold the hand of every newb here, Frodo. There are more and more of them and I swear they are trolling more often than not. I don't have time to tell Zaki how to handle himself. As for everyone else, they know the rules here.

I'm simply trying to encourange reasonable discourse over the usual flame baiting. the only people who sticck around in such conditions are people who like retaliating at times, like me. And you will occasionally get upset with me about that.

You should make your mind up about what you want... flame wars or logical discussion. It seems the flaming is all we're about really.

Now I look at Ziki's first posts here... and I see an attempt at discussion and no name calling.

After a barrage of flaming he's now trading insults... which is the only reason he's still around, because he's actually not bad at it.

You reap what you sow. Don't complain about the harvest. Dickweed planted dickweed.

(September 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm)Shell B Wrote:

Quote:I'm sure if everyone stopped kicking the heretic for a moment, and we let him breathe, he could respond nicely to you. As the mob is in full swing with this one already, I don't see them letting up.

Me I'm just sad at the lack of actual resistance we have here.

You know, in other forums, this "mob" nonsense is never mentioned. Why? Because people are not silly enough to forget to count how many people one newbie actually is. Any number of people opposing a newbs assertions is going to read like a "mob." Regulars have every right to respond and I can not limit them by a certain number. When I am a newb at a forum, I try not to insult everyone by putting words in their mouths the moment I get there. Oddly enough, the mob typically dissipates after welcoming me. Interesting how that works.

Well as an atheist site any outsider will get abused as soon as they enter here. It's pretty much guaranteed I'm sure you'd agree.

Go to a flaming theist site and see for yourself. Most people implode from the lack of mutual support.

(September 30, 2011 at 1:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: If you read what you've quoted me saying, you wouldn't ask that question now would you.

Yes, I would. I fail to see where I insulted him, even in the slightest, Frods. I understand that you were merely saying that my post fell by the wayside. However, I would venture to say it went more than by the wayside. Zaki went ahead and fully implied I was saying things I was not. That tends to rub me the wrong way. Would you agree that it is rather hard to have a conversation with someone when it essentially goes, "So, I don't think that the founding fathers were Christian." "Hahahahahahah. So, you agree that Benjamin Franklin was an alien?

(September 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm)Shell B Wrote: I'm simply trying to encourange reasonable discourse over the usual flame baiting. the only people who sticck around in such conditions are people who like retaliating at times, like me. And you will occasionally get upset with me about that.

I respect that and I try to lead conversation in the right direction as much as possible. It's rather hard when the newb has already had a meltdown by the time I get there. Hard to tell people to lay off him when he is going batshit. As for getting "upset" with you. I assure you, you are not the only person I have told to take a chill pill, atheists are included. It's a thankless job as someone is inevitably irritated with me every time, but I try to step in when it seems necessary. I'm not an authoritarian type, though, so this is hard for me.

(September 30, 2011 at 1:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You should make your mind up about what you want... flame wars or logical discussion. It seems the flaming is all we're about really.

This is where I take umbrage, Frodo. This is not my forum. As mentioned above, it is difficult to do anything without ruffling someone's feathers, so I try to limit myself to enforcing rules, not dictating behavior. If people are flaming each other back and forth, there is naught I can do about unless the conversation has entirely deteriorated. As long as insults are still coupled with discussion, there is little I can do. These are not my rules, though I stand by them. So, despite the fact that my mind is made up, it hardly matters what I want. You are mostly adults. Why so much intervention is needed whenever a theist freaks out because the atheists are not pussyfooting is beyond me. I have tried explaining that denying god and all arguments that stem from the bible is not a personal insult and that theists should just carry on. I have tried explaining to people that I cannot chastise someone for being insulting if they give it right back. None of this has worked, thusfar. Either people get the idea that it feels like a mob because there is more than one atheist here or they run away. It's there prerogative. I am tired of trying to get them to stay only to feel like an idiot when they post a freakout thread saying they are leaving because atheists are all meanie poopy faces. I think that sometimes you forget that the ratio of atheists who hate Christians to Christians who hate atheists is not skewed in favor of Christians being victims. No matter how nice I am in private messages and how much I try to coax newbs, 1 out of 10, at best, actually respects me and stays.

Quote:Now I look at Ziki's first posts here... and I see an attempt at discussion and no name calling.

That's lovely. However, he reported no posts and relished jumping right in on the bandwagon. If he didn't like it, he could have reported it and rose above it. Instead, like so many others, he decided to join in because insulting atheists is apparently as much fun as insulting theists.

Quote:After a barrage of flaming he's now trading insults... which is the only reason he's still around, because he's actually not bad at it.

Yes, pretty pathetic, isn't it?

Quote:You reap what you sow. Don't complain about the harvest. Dickweed planted dickweed.

I am not to blame for the state of this. Theists do not get the right idea when they come in here. They think the atheists will be awed at their "proof" of god and inevitably are disappointed. I sowed that? Give me a break, Frodo. I might be present quite a bit, but I am not the judge, jury and executioner here. In fact, I think I need a break from this place.

This uplifting moment brought to you courtesy of the 80's

(September 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm)Shell B Wrote:

---

(September 30, 2011 at 3:12 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Shell: sometimes when everyone is throwing rocks and you're engaged solely in throwing rocks back, as the conversations with Zaki have all sadly devolved into, such is the lack of actual opposition here, genuine questions like yours tried to be, with just the smallest of insults added for good measure, tend to become collateral damage.

Excuse me, Frodo. Here is my original post to Zaki. Please tell me where I insulted him. I'm sorry. I'm simply getting a little peeved at being a ventriloquist dummy.

(September 29, 2011 at 2:54 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(September 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Of-course, if you could offer conclusive proof for His non-existence that would settle the matter. But you can't, can you?

It's impossible to offer conclusive proof for the nonexistence of something. For example, a colony of unicorns could live in a galaxy far, far away and we would have no way of knowing. Duh.

Not that it matters, as you can't offer conclusive proof of his existence can you? The point is, if you claim god exists, you have to prove it. If you don't believe other people's assertions that god exists, you have nothing to prove.

---

(September 29, 2011 at 6:22 am)Zaki Aminu Wrote: There is a hierachy in Existence. Some things are absolutely dependent for their existence on others.

As far as I can tell, that is true of all things. This is a symbiotic -- if you'll pardon me using the term rather loosely -- universe. So, basically, everything is less than real, based on your beliefs. I wish you could name one thing that did not rely on anything else for its very existence. I might just be drawing a blank. However, if you cannot, then this ultimate reality is just a construct of an overactive, but shortsighted imagination. Not that I have a prejudice against such things. Imagine away, Zaki.

If you mean everyone is disagreeing with him when you say, "Everyone is throwing rocks." there is hardly anything I can do about it. If Zaki cannot handle opposition gracefully, he has to grow as a person or leave, which is unfortunate, but what are you going to do? I can't hold the hand of every newb here, Frodo. There are more and more of them and I swear they are trolling more often than not. I don't have time to tell Zaki how to handle himself. As for everyone else, they know the rules here.

Quote:I'm sure if everyone stopped kicking the heretic for a moment, and we let him breathe, he could respond nicely to you. As the mob is in full swing with this one already, I don't see them letting up.

Me I'm just sad at the lack of actual resistance we have here.

You know, in other forums, this "mob" nonsense is never mentioned. Why? Because people are not silly enough to forget to count how many people one newbie actually is. Any number of people opposing a newbs assertions is going to read like a "mob." Regulars have every right to respond and I can not limit them by a certain number. When I am a newb at a forum, I try not to insult everyone by putting words in their mouths the moment I get there. Oddly enough, the mob typically dissipates after welcoming me. Interesting how that works.

Zaki Wrote:Oh dear! I've upset you, haven't I?

No, but you have lost all credibility with me. Your latest post does nothing to help that.

Zaki)Look, this is easily cleared up: Are you now agreeing that the American continent [i Wrote:actually already existed BEFORE Europeans even knew about its existence?[/i] And that belief or non-belief in its existence by Europeans was utterly irrelevant with regard to whether it actually existed BEFORE its discovery by Europeans or not? A simple yes or no will do - but take your time.

Actually, a yes or no won't do. We were not even discussing a continent, were we? You are not even adept at dodging questions and putting words in people's mouths. Do not continue to misquote people.

---

Hahahahahahahahahah! I just KNEW you couldn't bring yourself to make admit that ANYTHING can exist that you don't already know about. The Young Earth Creationists might be pathetiic in thinking that the planet is only 6000 years old. But that's as nothing compared to you thinking the American continent only came into being a few hundred years ago. Hahahahahahahahahaha!