I wasn't trolling, just putting forward a theory that might explain the oppression of women in Islamic states. If anybody's got a more plausible explanation I'd love to hear it.

(March 27, 2019 at 3:43 pm)wyzas Wrote:

(March 27, 2019 at 3:29 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The trolling wave begins..
Dear God.

When man makes a god, then makes rules that the men want and claim that they come from that god, and must be enforced by man, trolling should be expected.

Nothing gives a man the right to troll. Trolling is the tactic of provocation. It's pure madness and a provocation attempt.

Just like in school, the bully doesn't like you, So he starts to make fun of you to make you feel sad, depressed or angry.

If you don't like the thought of man making a God, then don't believe in the thought of man making a God.

But if I start to make fun of people who don't believe in God; then I'm provoking them and bulling them for their beliefs.

Serious criticism =/= Making fun
Making fun = trolling

Serious criticism = build
Trolling = madness.

---

(March 27, 2019 at 3:49 pm)Editz Wrote: I wasn't trolling, just putting forward a theory that might explain the oppression of women in Islamic states. If anybody's got a more plausible explanation I'd love to hear it.

I already mentioned in this comment that most of this list is false:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-58591-p...pid1892059

If your reply to my evidence is the comment you posted; then it is trolling based on a false list.

(March 27, 2019 at 4:35 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(March 27, 2019 at 3:43 pm)wyzas Wrote: When man makes a god, then makes rules that the men want and claim that they come from that god, and must be enforced by man, trolling should be expected.

Nothing gives a man the right to troll. Trolling is the tactic of provocation. It's pure madness and a provocation attempt.

Just like in school, the bully doesn't like you, So he starts to make fun of you to make you feel sad, depressed or angry.

If you don't like the thought of man making a God, then don't believe in the thought of man making a God.

But if I start to make fun of people who don't believe in God; then I'm provoking them and bulling them for their beliefs.

Serious criticism =/= Making fun
Making fun = trolling

(March 27, 2019 at 3:49 pm)Editz Wrote: I wasn't trolling, just putting forward a theory that might explain the oppression of women in Islamic states. If anybody's got a more plausible explanation I'd love to hear it.

I already mentioned in this comment that most of this list is false:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-58591-p...pid1892059

If your reply to my evidence is the comment you posted; then it is trolling based on a false list.

 I accept that Wyzas made his list in good faith. 

I also accept that your answers are technically correct, in terms of what is written in the Q'uran an Hadith.

However, those answers do not necessarily reflect reality. I'l mention just a few of things I know to be true having lived in the country concerned , which has its own religious police.(Malaysia) . 

In Malaysia it is a criminal offence:

To try to convert a Muslim to another faith.

To offer alcohol to a Muslim

For a Muslim to be found eating or drinking in public during daylight ours of Ramadan.

For a Muslim to deny his faith; 2 years in prison.

In divorce, in Malaysia, the children ALWAYS go to the father

Ah yes, when I was there, women wore neither hijab nor burqa.

I have only read  in newspaper of women who were raped being arrested for adultery. I have no problem believing that would happen in say Pakistan, or perhaps Afghanistan.

As for other extreme punishments. I accept that they are not written law. Also accept that they almost certainly happen.

However, I am also aware that some of the more extreme customs are tribal, predating Islam by centuries. Two examples ;female circumcision. A barbaric tribal custom, I think.  Also, customs of extreme modesty, such as the burqa and niqab. As far as I know, that's not quite what the Q'uran says;


In the Quran, God says, “And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms…” (24:31)

I think perhaps the perceptions of Islam held by many non Muslims are based on the excessive conservatism of the Wahhabi in Saudi Arabia. Plus of course,  those ignorant and pathetic individuals who have been  taught in some perverted madrassa that is a  great thing to murder innocents, even though this is banned in the Q'uran

Islam is portrayed as a religion of “terror” and “killing”, yet this is just one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam. Allah Almighty states unambiguously in the Quran (what means): "Nor take life -- which Allah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)." [Quran 17:33]

http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/113432/islam-does-not-tolerate-the-killing-of-innocents

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 Face veils:

The burqa and other types of face veils have been attested since pre-Islamic times, in particular among Pashtun and Arab women. Face veiling has not been regarded as a religious requirement by most Islamic scholars, past or present. However, some scholars, especially those belonging to the Salafi movement, view it as obligatory for women in the presence of non-related males. Women may wear the burqa for a number of reasons, including compulsion, as was the case in Afghanistan during Taliban rule. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

(March 27, 2019 at 4:35 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(March 27, 2019 at 3:43 pm)wyzas Wrote: When man makes a god, then makes rules that the men want and claim that they come from that god, and must be enforced by man, trolling should be expected.

Nothing gives a man the right to troll. Trolling is the tactic of provocation. It's pure madness and a provocation attempt.

Just like in school, the bully doesn't like you, So he starts to make fun of you to make you feel sad, depressed or angry.

If you don't like the thought of man making a God, then don't believe in the thought of man making a God.

But if I start to make fun of people who don't believe in God; then I'm provoking them and bulling them for their beliefs.

Serious criticism =/= Making fun
Making fun = trolling

Serious criticism = build
Trolling = madness.

I didn't troll. I simply said that trolling should be expected when the person holds that particular premise. From where I stand, you hold that premise. 

 Gives the right to troll, plaeese.  

And I do like the thought of man making gods. That the only explanation for gods existing. They are a man made concept. 

If you hold a position that I consider absurd and does not warrant serious consideration then I'm gonna poke fun.

Edit: Don't feel personally offended, jews, christians, hindus,............ positions are also absurd.

Except Mormons and Scientologists of course. They are beyond ridicule.

(March 27, 2019 at 9:26 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Except Mormons and Scientologists of course. They are beyond ridicule.

Yeah, but  the putative Church of Scientology is also rich, defensive and vindictive.---you know, like Christians were a couple of hundred years ago, and would still be if they could. 

At least they aren't bullshitting people about some silly god. 

Say what you want about their grift, but those guys really do believe in human potential!

To rid you of your money?
Surely the Vatican is a very close tie for second per capita but in absolute values they are the king.

Give LRons crew a millennium.  Tally it up then.  Catholicism will be as much a memory as the temple of apollo.   The Hubbardites will wonder how anyone could have ever believed such nonsense in the first place.

The Prophet Tom will have ushered in a new era of prosperity and cruise line daytrips out of the morass of that superstitious chaos, watching over all of us as he effortlessly floats through the sky unchanging and immortal.

Checking in every now and again to shuffle abusive ai e-meters from center to center. Evangelists will log on to AF to wave their voluminous historical documents in the face of non-believers.

(March 27, 2019 at 11:19 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Give LRons crew a millennium.  Tally it up then.  Catholicism will be as much a memory as the temple of apollo.   The Hubbardites will wonder how anyone could have ever believed such nonsense in the first place.

The Prophet Tom will have ushered in a new era of prosperity and cruise line daytrips out of the morass of that superstitious chaos, watching over all of us as he effortlessly floats through the sky unchanging and immortal.

Checking in every now and again to shuffle abusive ai e-meters from center to center.  Evangelists will log on to AF to wave their voluminous historical documents in the face of non-believers.

 Sounds about right.

I'm thinking of one of my favourite poems. 'Ozymandias" by Shelley.  A cautionary tale against arrogance.

"I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

That led me to think of the life span of religions. Christianity has been around for 2000 years, and they think that's a long time.----As far as I can tell, the Egyptian religion lasted at least that long. Historical Vedic Religion has been around since about 1900 bce .

Buddhism began around 600 bce.

Christianity really hasn't got a lot to boast about, in terms of originality, longevity, or moral values.. A lot of members though? Very misleading. Once a person is baptised, he/she is counted by the Church unless he/she has officially repudiated their faith. That is rare.

Out of the 2 billion Catholics claimed by the Church, the number of devout followers could be as low as one quarter of that figure.Be willing to bet the number of devout Muslims is nowhere near the billion claimed.