(April 16, 2019 at 9:45 pm)wyzas Wrote: What's a 40 hour work week?

No idea, because I only work 32 hours a week and still receive full benefits.

The myth of the 'Murican Dream would have people believe, however, that working one's self to death will lead to a better life down the road.

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On another note, one may have noticed how Millenials call out of work a lot. It's no wonder, because they'd rather enjoy life while they still can than work 40+ hours a week. Eventually, all work places will either have to decrease work hours in order to provide benefits or not be able to hire anyone to work for them.

Bullshit. The American Dream is alive and well. You can work hard and get ahead (or work the system and get ahead) or choose to be a loser and never strive for anything. There's plenty of in between. But your life is what you make it. Sure, there's plenty of factors you can't control and never will be able to control. But statistically, I'm supposed to be dead, in prison or living a some run down trailer park right now. I come from poverty. I worked my way out of it and I promise you I'm not smarter than the average bear.

People who say shit like "it's impossible to get ahead" are usually fucking losers through and through. They'll tell you "it's impossible to get ahead" while wasting hundreds of dollars a month on cigarettes, alcohol, snacks, junk food, fast food, etc. Sure, plenty of people are in terrible circumstances that they had nothing to do with creating. But even plenty of those people can get out of it it they try hard enough.

edit: Locus of control is a very interesting concept I encourage people to look into.

(April 16, 2019 at 10:00 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: Bullshit. The American Dream is alive and well. You can work hard and get ahead (or work the system and get ahead) or choose to be a loser and never strive for anything. There's plenty of in between. But your life is what you make it. Sure, there's plenty of factors you can't control and never will be able to control. But statistically, I'm supposed to be dead, in prison or living a some run down trailer park right now. I come from poverty. I worked my way out of it and I promise you I'm not smarter than the average bear.

People who say shit like "it's impossible to get ahead" are usually fucking losers through and through. They'll tell you "it's impossible to get ahead" while wasting hundreds of dollars a month on cigarettes, alcohol, snacks, junk food, fast food, etc. Sure, plenty of people are in terrible circumstances that they had nothing to do with creating. But even plenty of those people can get out of it it they try hard enough.

You are so right, brotha. Within every failed person you will find a belly full of fast food and a lung full of tobacco tar. Thanks for figuring out the formula for all of us. We were wondering why there is so much poverty in the world and you figured it out. Cigs and fast food. Good for you.

I've been on both sides of the coin. I lived in a city where I made 60K a year, smoked cigs, and munched on fast food and did pretty okay for myself. And I've also lived in an area where I made not even half that, and despite the fact that I cut back on cigs and fast food... I still failed to make it. Not to question your infinite wisdom or anything... but perhaps other factors were at play.

(April 16, 2019 at 9:24 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My issue, though, is that "upward mobility" is not a good indicator of societal health. To me, it is this: if you are a hard working person who provides something useful to society, are you being shit on or not? The problem I have with capitalism (contemporary or otherwise) is that the vast majority of people who actually DO something useful for society are shat upon just because they haven't figured out the puzzle of "upward mobility."

"Upward mobility" is a shitty metric by which to gauge the health of a society. A better metric, I propose, is this: if you work 40 hours a week, can you afford decent healthcare and education? If this were the metric used to determine how "wealthy" a nation was, America might be lobbed in with the third world (albeit at the top of the third world).

Oh, I agree. But who exactly said the American Dream was always, or even usually, a good thing? My uncle was cheap to the point of being mean, even though we was wealthy. Similarly, my sister still works to make more money, even though she could have retired over a decade ago and has no real plans about how to spend the money she has already made. They both invested their money to make more.

Meanwhile the people who could really use even a portion of that money do without. The best you can say for people like my uncle and sister is that they invest in the companies we all work for. But you would think that since most companies create consumer products, even they could do better if more people had more money to spend on their products.

I personally lost my desire to be wealthy after reading Walden when I was a teenager, and have been quite content with less than my parents. So the American Dream lost its meaning for me personally long ago. And of course my sister likely thinks of me as a failure because of that. I know my parents were disappointed in me. But oh well, I had better things to do with my time than to pursue ambitions I didn't agree with. At least my sister made my parents proud.

So I guess I'm saying that some people can still be successful believing in myths like the American Dream -- at least within their social circles. Why should they be thought different than any other group of believers?

(April 16, 2019 at 10:40 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: I personally lost my desire to be wealthy after reading Walden

This is the greatest endorsement for reading Walden that I've ever heard. One might even say, "if you haven't lost your desire to be wealthy, you haven't really read Walden."

Quote:Bullshit. The American Dream is alive and well. You can work hard and get ahead (or work the system and get ahead) or choose to be a loser and never strive for anything. There's plenty of in between. But your life is what you make it. Sure, there's plenty of factors you can't control and never will be able to control. But statistically, I'm supposed to be dead, in prison or living a some run down trailer park right now. I come from poverty. I worked my way out of it and I promise you I'm not smarter than the average bear.

People who say shit like "it's impossible to get ahead" are usually fucking losers through and through. They'll tell you "it's impossible to get ahead" while wasting hundreds of dollars a month on cigarettes, alcohol, snacks, junk food, fast food, etc. Sure, plenty of people are in terrible circumstances that they had nothing to do with creating. But even plenty of those people can get out of it it they try hard enough.

edit: Locus of control is a very interesting concept I encourage people to look into.

Wow never have I heard a more simplistic and frankly ignorant statement

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(April 16, 2019 at 10:13 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 16, 2019 at 10:00 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: Bullshit. The American Dream is alive and well. You can work hard and get ahead (or work the system and get ahead) or choose to be a loser and never strive for anything. There's plenty of in between. But your life is what you make it. Sure, there's plenty of factors you can't control and never will be able to control. But statistically, I'm supposed to be dead, in prison or living a some run down trailer park right now. I come from poverty. I worked my way out of it and I promise you I'm not smarter than the average bear.

People who say shit like "it's impossible to get ahead" are usually fucking losers through and through. They'll tell you "it's impossible to get ahead" while wasting hundreds of dollars a month on cigarettes, alcohol, snacks, junk food, fast food, etc. Sure, plenty of people are in terrible circumstances that they had nothing to do with creating. But even plenty of those people can get out of it it they try hard enough.

You are so right, brotha. Within every failed person you will find a belly full of fast food and a lung full of tobacco tar. Thanks for figuring out the formula for all of us. We were wondering why there is so much poverty in the world and you figured it out. Cigs and fast food. Good for you.

I've been on both sides of the coin. I lived in a city where I made 60K a year, smoked cigs, and munched on fast food and did pretty okay for myself. And I've also lived in an area where I made not even half that, and despite the fact that I cut back on cigs and fast food... I still failed to make it. Not to question your infinite wisdom or anything... but perhaps other factors were at play.

Indeed the wise capitalist has enlightened us 

(April 16, 2019 at 9:50 pm)Kit Wrote:

(April 16, 2019 at 9:45 pm)wyzas Wrote: What's a 40 hour work week?

No idea, because I only work 32 hours a week and still receive full benefits.

The myth of the 'Murican Dream would have people believe, however, that working one's self to death will lead to a better life down the road.

You need to get a second job.

Quote:You need to get a second job

Then a third then a fourth or we could just acknowledge the system is broken

(April 17, 2019 at 8:00 am)wyzas Wrote: You need to get a second job.

Incorrect.

(April 17, 2019 at 8:14 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:You need to get a second job

Then a third then a fourth or we could just acknowledge the system is broken

Nope, not at 32 hours a week. If that's what people want to do, fine, but don't bitch.