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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 19, 2019 at 12:00 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2019 at 12:06 am by The Grand Nudger.)
That’s fine, they’re here now, they exist, just like energy exists, just like you and I exist. There isn’t anything that would outlast all things playing out, that’s a simple tautology.
Like I said man, just a rabbit hole thing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 19, 2019 at 6:50 am
so stop going down.
the fact is that based on our location in space/time our conversations laws work to a degree. They obviously don't work in every case. even if our understanding is incomplete, it made cells phones. So using what we do understand is better than using something based on an unknown.
we are here and no matter how much of an illusion our reality is, it is as real as it gets. People that try and run us deep down the rabbit hole are our problem. We do not have to follow them.
"deny-everything" and "my-god-only" ... go way too far down to me.
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 20, 2019 at 5:28 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2019 at 5:31 am by Bucky Ball.)
polymath257 Wrote:
Quote:No, energy isn't all that exists.
Quantum particles.
So then, in a exothermic chemical reaction, the heat energy that is released is made of "quantum particles" (?)
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 20, 2019 at 10:52 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2019 at 10:59 am by Anomalocaris.)
(July 19, 2019 at 12:00 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: That’s fine, they’re here now, they exist, just like energy exists, just like you and I exist. There isn’t anything that would outlast all things playing out, that’s a simple tautology.
Like I said man, just a rabbit hole thing.
If going deeper than the immediate macroscopic world you can perceive is going into rabbit hole, then not going down rabbit holes means stop using most microelectronic devices that relies on quantum effects. Why the net energy of the universe may be zero while perturbation from zero can temporarily support existence of things like you is but quantum effects writ large.
(July 20, 2019 at 5:28 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: polymath257 Wrote:
Quote:No, energy isn't all that exists.
Quantum particles.
So then, in a exothermic chemical reaction, the heat energy that is released is made of "quantum particles" (?)
How does that follow from existent quantum particles not being directly energy?
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm
(July 20, 2019 at 10:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: (July 19, 2019 at 12:00 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: That’s fine, they’re here now, they exist, just like energy exists, just like you and I exist. There isn’t anything that would outlast all things playing out, that’s a simple tautology.
Like I said man, just a rabbit hole thing.
If going deeper than the immediate macroscopic world you can perceive is going into rabbit hole, then not going down rabbit holes means stop using most microelectronic devices that relies on quantum effects. Why the net energy of the universe may be zero while perturbation from zero can temporarily support existence of things like you is but quantum effects writ large.
(July 20, 2019 at 5:28 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: polymath257 Wrote:
So then, in a exothermic chemical reaction, the heat energy that is released is made of "quantum particles" (?)
How does that follow from existent quantum particles not being directly energy?
Not sure if you're asking me.
Heat energy is the movement of particles, not the particles themselves.
So the idea that "everything there is" is quantum particles cannot be true.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 21, 2019 at 7:23 am
(This post was last modified: July 21, 2019 at 7:31 am by comet.)
(July 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: (July 20, 2019 at 10:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: If going deeper than the immediate macroscopic world you can perceive is going into rabbit hole, then not going down rabbit holes means stop using most microelectronic devices that relies on quantum effects. Why the net energy of the universe may be zero while perturbation from zero can temporarily support existence of things like you is but quantum effects writ large.
How does that follow from existent quantum particles not being directly energy?
Not sure if you're asking me.
Heat energy is the movement of particles, not the particles themselves.
So the idea that "everything there is" is quantum particles cannot be true.
They don't know what energy is. They know how to use the notion but not what it is. Just Like they don't know what gravity is but can use it. I I think its better stated the movement of particles is the indication of "heat energy". Its Like seeing if its windy outside by looking out the window. The movement isn't the wind.
Maybe change that to "everything we know is based on quantum particles."? If space/time itself is quantized then everything being based on quantized is correct.
(July 20, 2019 at 10:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: (July 19, 2019 at 12:00 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: That’s fine, they’re here now, they exist, just like energy exists, just like you and I exist. There isn’t anything that would outlast all things playing out, that’s a simple tautology.
Like I said man, just a rabbit hole thing.
If going deeper than the immediate macroscopic world you can perceive is going into rabbit hole, then not going down rabbit holes means stop using most microelectronic devices that relies on quantum effects. Why the net energy of the universe may be zero while perturbation from zero can temporarily support existence of things like you is but quantum effects writ large.
(July 20, 2019 at 5:28 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: polymath257 Wrote:
So then, in a exothermic chemical reaction, the heat energy that is released is made of "quantum particles" (?)
How does that follow from existent quantum particles not being directly energy?
well ... we don't really want to question a statement of belief about god to much; do we?
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 21, 2019 at 8:09 am
(July 21, 2019 at 7:23 am)comet Wrote: (July 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Not sure if you're asking me.
Heat energy is the movement of particles, not the particles themselves.
So the idea that "everything there is" is quantum particles cannot be true.
They don't know what energy is. They know how to use the notion but not what it is. Just Like they don't know what gravity is but can use it. I I think its better stated the movement of particles is the indication of "heat energy". Its Like seeing if its windy outside by looking out the window. The movement isn't the wind.
Maybe change that to "everything we know is based on quantum particles."? If space/time itself is quantized then everything being based on quantized is correct.
(July 20, 2019 at 10:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: If going deeper than the immediate macroscopic world you can perceive is going into rabbit hole, then not going down rabbit holes means stop using most microelectronic devices that relies on quantum effects. Why the net energy of the universe may be zero while perturbation from zero can temporarily support existence of things like you is but quantum effects writ large.
How does that follow from existent quantum particles not being directly energy?
well ... we don't really want to question a statement of belief about god to much; do we?
Your quotes (very easy to do on this messed up forum) are not correct ... the attributions.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 21, 2019 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: July 21, 2019 at 9:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The rabbit hole has nothing to do with going deeper than the macroscopic world. It has to do with making a series of inward spiraling claims and questions about the existence of a thing based on observations that don’t speak to the existence of anything.
As already explained, very simply, the net energy of the universe being zero doesn’t mean that energy doesn’t exist anymore than my net earnings being zero would demonstrate that my gross pay doesnt exist.
Terms like net and gross refer to accounting, not being.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 21, 2019 at 9:46 am
Of course the so called rabbit hole has everything to do with going deeper than the macroscopic world of the present. The net energy of the universe being zero removes some constraints and imposes others concerning where the universe could have come from, and what its final state can be. So not only does it not “don’t speak to the existence of anything”, it actually speaks most fundamentally to the existence of all things.
Things like net and gross in accounting forms a useful analogue framework for visualizing real and virtual in the quantum universe, which, despite what your think is real world, is the actual real world.
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RE: The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence
July 21, 2019 at 9:51 am
(This post was last modified: July 21, 2019 at 9:52 am by The Grand Nudger.)
And in that real world, the accounting of net and gross does not and cannot establish that any amount f x doesn’t exist. As before, the net energy may be zero.... but you’re really typing your response to me just as surely as a rock exists.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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