(December 18, 2019 at 1:31 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: It wouldn't matter that we had access to the parents dna, or to the first human beings dna..unless shared dna strongly suggested™ a shared lineage.  If that weren't true, then no amount of access to the dna of either party would be relevant to any paternity test.  It is precisely because we have such access that we figured out that law of genetics - called "heredity".

(December 18, 2019 at 12:56 pm)no one Wrote: The wizardry of fantasy is significantly more authentic and compelling than any advanced scientific capacity.

(December 18, 2019 at 9:51 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Are we confusing 'assumptions' and 'testable hypotheses' again? Like we can't compare organisms that we KNOW are related because we bred them to learn how to use genomes to measure relatedness? I think a confirmed hypothesis is way more reliable than an assumption.

(December 18, 2019 at 4:59 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 9:51 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Are we confusing 'assumptions' and 'testable hypotheses' again? Like we can't compare organisms that we KNOW are related because we bred them to learn how to use genomes to measure relatedness? I think a confirmed hypothesis is way more reliable than an assumption.

In the absence of known ancestry, relatedness is always an assumption. Homoplasy (such as convergence or reversals) often breaks with this assumption because trait or genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness. (Wake, et al., 2011). Phylogenies are indeed hypotheses (though I disagree they're testable); they attempt to predict various ways in which the relatedness assumption could have played out.

Reference: Wake, D. B., M. H. Wake, and C. D. Specht. 2011. Homoplasy: From detecting pattern to determining process and mechanism of evolution. Science 331: 1032–1035.

(December 18, 2019 at 4:59 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness.

Quote:chromosome 2 is a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes.

The evidence for this includes:

The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has nearly identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.

The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere in the q21.3–q22.1 region.

The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 there are additional telomere sequences in the q13 band, far from either end of the chromosome.

“We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2.”— Jacob W. Ijdo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2

Quote:genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness.

Quote:Access to a parent's DNA matters if you're going to compare phylogenies to paternity tests; would you like to discard your analogy then?

(December 18, 2019 at 11:20 am)Yukon_Jack Wrote:

(December 17, 2019 at 1:46 am)SUNGULA Wrote: I stand by my last statement

What is Tour’s straw man? You threw it out there so can you defend it?

(December 18, 2019 at 6:07 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 4:59 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness.

So it's just a coincidence then? Take human chromosome 2

Quote:chromosome 2 is a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes.

The evidence for this includes:

The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has nearly identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.

The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere in the q21.3–q22.1 region.

The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 there are additional telomere sequences in the q13 band, far from either end of the chromosome.

“We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2.”— Jacob W. Ijdo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2

Quote:What is Tour’s straw man? You threw it out there so can you defend it?
I stand by my statement that's all i need to say