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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 4:54 pm
(March 9, 2020 at 1:15 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (March 9, 2020 at 1:07 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: The fact that there were powerful families in the greek democracy or the roman republic does not mean tha there was an "imperial rule".
Both of them had what amounts to a "Caesar". Just like Zeus and Apollo were comparative names.
It still amounts to a ruling class.
Sorry I didn’t catch this before (I know how much you rely on my error correction services),
but ‘Zeus’ and ‘Apollo’ refer to completely different gods. You mean ‘Zeus and Jupiter’ (Apollo had the same name in both pantheons).
Don’t bother to thank me, I’m just happy to help.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 5:08 pm
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2020 at 5:10 pm by Mr Greene.)
At what point do mythological characters become a ruling family?
And for the record the patron Goddess of Athens is Athena.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 5:22 pm
(March 9, 2020 at 5:08 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: At what point do mythological characters become a ruling family?
And for the record the patron Goddess of Athens is Athena.
I think he was trying make an equivalence between the rulers of Greece and Rome, saying they both had the equivalent of a Caesar. He further compound this silly mistake by trying to equate Zeus with Apollo.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 5:29 pm
Arguing over the probable non-existence of Greek deities and their non-effect on democratic processes is a new one...
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 5:33 pm
(March 9, 2020 at 5:29 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Arguing over the probable non-existence of Greek deities and their non-effect on democratic processes is a new one...
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But Brian wasn't doing that - he wasn't arguing the existence of the Greco-Roman gods. He was pointing out that they had different names for the same gods, just as they would have had different names for the same type of leader.
I mean, he got everything wrong, but we can at least be fair regarding what he was wrong about.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 6:15 pm
OK there are two separate statements there.
So who does he think the Greek Caesar is?
Frankly comparing the late Roman Republic to Athens, or even the early Roman Republic is pushing it.
Caesar became who he was because the Republic had become so corrupt it was a democracy in name only.
That was so wrong it's difficult to tell what he thought he was on about.
Caesar was a General so perhaps Strategoi...
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 9, 2020 at 6:26 pm
Greece went through a period between 800-650bce where oligarchies found themselves beset by populist demagogues staging military coups. Another interesting comment on the past and present.
Sparta being the last stable oligarchy remaining at that point..IIRC.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 10, 2020 at 3:08 am
(March 9, 2020 at 2:49 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (March 9, 2020 at 1:37 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: I repeat: no imperial rule until, and including, Caesar. Please get yourself informed. 
Same for greece. You are simply, and demonstrably, wrong.
Please dont triple down on your ignorance.
To falsely equate what the Greeks and Romans had in antiquity as being equal to our modern concepts of checks and balances the west has today, is absurd.
You are shifting the burden of proof, and are strawmanning me. I dont fancy that! I never said that what the greeks and romans had was equal....in fact i pointed out the differernces ("rich and powerful families").
It was you that claimed "imperial rule" in the roman republic and greece, and this is wrong for the most part, particularly the part(s) you mentioned like Caesar.
Please stop digging your own grave by becoming dishnonest instead of admitting to a mistake.
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 10, 2020 at 3:56 am
Should someone tell Trump to beware the ides of March?
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RE: The Romans tried to save the Republic
March 10, 2020 at 7:53 am
(March 10, 2020 at 3:56 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Should someone tell Trump to beware the ides of March?
I can just see it now. Trump gets warned and immediately calls a press conference in which he blames immigrants for taking over March Idesteenth.
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