(April 24, 2020 at 5:55 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: So basically it's a deal. A business deal. 

(April 27, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: if you were ever to choose a wife would you then see it as a business deal as well?
what about a friend?
have you ever decided that a friend isn't really a friend and he/she is just using you and you end the relationship?

Same process sport. you decide whether or not on one level or another if a person is compatible. here you are doing the same with a system of belief. or are you just a lemming made to follow the one infront of you hell or high water?

You don't get to decide what the nature of Reality is.

(April 27, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: I 'got' a one on one relationship with God, the promise of eternal salvation and my undeserved prosperous life, and an over all contentment with the roll i have been assigned to.

And you fell for that line ? LOL
The relationship you have is with the fantasy in your head. You have no promise of eternal anything. "Salvation " was cooked up by the early church.
Jesus did not preach "salvation". Jesus was a Jew. Jews did not believe dead people go to heaven.
 

Quote:Love neighbor as self which for me= to help people like you with the truth of God's word, and to love God with all of my being= turn from a love of sin, and do what i can/understand to live as best i can in service to God..

you assumed no answer or a complicated one?

what is so hard to understand the golden rules?
Love God with all your being
love neighbor as yourself?

Actually Jesus said "Whatever you do the LEAST of these, you do to ME" .... whenever you insult people here, you are insulting Jesus ... clearly you love insulting people with all your being, not a god.
You insult Jesus all the time, as he said. You're the perfect example of a hypocrite.

Quote:Religion isn't a choose your own adventure book .It has very real metaphysical and  consequences many of which a totally incompatible .One of you is wrong and the other is right , And you have no means of telling a Buddhist you got it right .

Wrong again. You could both be wrong. 
BTW You just contradicted yourself. First you say it was/is a choice (see above) and here you say the opposite. Which is it, *sport* ? 

Quote:if you can not provide an example or proof/context then there is no further point to continue this discussion.

If you *cannot* spell the word "cannot" correctly, there is no reason to continue, as you obviously lack even a 5th Grade education.
I have no reason to discuss anything with a clearly ignorant fool.

(April 27, 2020 at 12:51 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: like you being convinced that most people can convince themselves as you have that anything can be true.

if this were true then why are we not still worshiping anubus thor or zuse? that's right "reasons.. "

people are not a stupid as you need them to be in order to justify your dismissal. this is the reason for failed religions. if people believe there is something there powering or fueling belief.

only 4% of you represent the world's population/people who think like you do. why is that? what is the most likly answer? That's right you 4% are simply smarter than everyone else who make nothing up out of thin air.

It's a fact that most people can convince themselves of something they want to believe if they try hard enough, long enough. I didn't put any effort at all into not believing, I just had a moment when I realized I didn't believe anymore.

Greek religion arguably extends back to Neolithic times; but certainly extends back as far as the 8th Century BCE until it was suppressed by the Christians around the 300s AD. It's time on earth (not counting modern revivals) was at least 1,100 years, probably over 5,000. The 'reasons' were Christians stamping it out once they got temporal power. That's been the death of many religions. Vedic Hinduism goes back to 3300 BCE and is still a major world religion. Is that evidence that Hinduism is the true religion?

It doesn't take stupidity, it only takes motivation. Do you think stupidity is the explanation for 1100 years or more of Greek polytheism? They believed something was there that fueled their belief.

There are 200 million 'convinced atheists' just in China, the low end of broad estimates put us at 500 million worldwide; mostly in Asia, the Pacific, and Europe; the least in North Africa and the Middle East. You might want to update your figure to 6.7% of the world's population. That's about as many atheists as Buddhists. Not to mention, as you know because it's been pointed out to you so many times, argument ad populum is a logical fallacy, if you conclusion is true, that can't be the reason it's true. There was a time when 99% of the world's population believed the earth was flat, the 99% was just wrong and the 1% were just the first to figure it out.

1. none of this address the point i made.
2. you guys have been around since the beginning of man, it's not like you just figured out atheist in the last 100 years.
there has always been a small contingent.

(April 27, 2020 at 3:47 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 12:51 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It's a fact that most people can convince themselves of something they want to believe if they try hard enough, long enough. I didn't put any effort at all into not believing, I just had a moment when I realized I didn't believe anymore.

Greek religion arguably extends back to Neolithic times; but certainly extends back as far as the 8th Century BCE until it was suppressed by the Christians around the 300s AD. It's time on earth (not counting modern revivals) was at least 1,100 years, probably over 5,000. The 'reasons' were Christians stamping it out once they got temporal power. That's been the death of many religions. Vedic Hinduism goes back to 3300 BCE and is still a major world religion. Is that evidence that Hinduism is the true religion?

It doesn't take stupidity, it only takes motivation. Do you think stupidity is the explanation for 1100 years or more of Greek polytheism? They believed something was there that fueled their belief.

There are 200 million 'convinced atheists' just in China, the low end of broad estimates put us at 500 million worldwide; mostly in Asia, the Pacific, and Europe; the least in North Africa and the Middle East. You might want to update your figure to 6.7% of the world's population. That's about as many atheists as Buddhists. Not to mention, as you know because it's been pointed out to you so many times, argument ad populum is a logical fallacy, if you conclusion is true, that can't be the reason it's true. There was a time when 99% of the world's population believed the earth was flat, the 99% was just wrong and the 1% were just the first to figure it out.

1. none of this address the point i made.
2. you guys have been around since the beginning of man, it's not like you just figured out atheist in the last 100 years.
there has always been a small contingent.

Getting a little less small now that most countries don't carry a death sentence for atheism....

(April 27, 2020 at 3:47 pm)Drich Wrote: 1. none of this address the point i made.
2. you guys have been around since the beginning of man, it's not like you just figured out atheist in the last 100 years.
there has always been a small contingent.

You have no point. 

There were hundreds, if not thousands of gods, invented by humans.
You are an atheist also. 
You are an atheist with respect to them all except for one. 
That makes you about 99.999 % the same as all other atheists. 

Despite the fact that you *call* yourself a theist and a Christian, you actually don't even believe in the Christian god. 
Christians believe that Jesus was the divine son of god. You don't. You invented yourself a one-man cult. 
Humans have been inventing religions (just like you did), (not since the beginning of man ... far from it, but I won't confuse you with the facts), 
and others have been dismissing their nonsense, just like we do, for just as long .... and virtually ALL of those religions have not withstood the test of time.

(April 27, 2020 at 6:09 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Christians believe that Jesus was the divine son of god. You don't. You invented yourself a one-man cult.

This is false.  Early Christians had varying views of Jesus.  The earliest simply saw him as being fully Jewish, as was Jesus' view of himself.  Later groups began to see him, his life (which they mostly invented) and his death as having varying, often contradictory, meanings.  The groups that, over time, established themselves became the proto-orthodox, which evolved, over time, into various orthodox factions of Christendom.  The other groups were labeled as being "heretics" and/or simply died off over time.

(April 27, 2020 at 5:57 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 3:47 pm)Drich Wrote: 1. none of this address the point i made.
2. you guys have been around since the beginning of man, it's not like you just figured out atheist in the last 100 years.
there has always been a small contingent.

Getting a little less small now that most countries don't carry a death sentence for atheism....

4% yeah you guys are setting the world on fire. when voltare the noted french atheist of the 1800's died he said (when atheism was at 3.5% within a 100 years all religion would be dead.) The international bible society bought his house and print bibles out of it now.

---

(April 27, 2020 at 6:09 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 3:47 pm)Drich Wrote: 1. none of this address the point i made.
2. you guys have been around since the beginning of man, it's not like you just figured out atheist in the last 100 years.
there has always been a small contingent.

You have no point. 

There were hundreds, if not thousands of gods,  invented by humans.
You are an atheist also. 
You are an atheist with respect to them all except for one. 
That makes you about 99.999 % the same as all other atheists. 

Despite the fact that you *call* yourself a theist and a Christian, you actually don't even believe in the Christian god. 
Christians believe that Jesus was the divine son of god. You don't. You invented yourself a one-man cult. 
Humans have been inventing religions (just like you did), (not since the beginning of man ... far from it, but I won't confuse you with the facts), 
and others have been dismissing their nonsense, just like we do, for just as long .... and virtually ALL of those religions have not withstood the test of time.

1

---

(April 27, 2020 at 3:46 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(April 24, 2020 at 5:55 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: So basically it's a deal. A business deal. 

(April 27, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: if you were ever to choose a wife would you then see it as a business deal as well?
what about a friend?
have you ever decided that a friend isn't really a friend and he/she is just using you and you end the relationship?

Same process sport. you decide whether or not on one level or another if a person is compatible. here you are doing the same with a system of belief. or are you just a lemming made to follow the one infront of you hell or high water?

You don't get to decide what the nature of Reality is.

(April 27, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: I 'got' a one on one relationship with God, the promise of eternal salvation and my undeserved prosperous life, and an over all contentment with the roll i have been assigned to.

And you fell for that line ? LOL
The relationship you have is with the fantasy in your head. You have no promise of eternal anything. "Salvation " was cooked up by the early church.
Jesus did not preach "salvation". Jesus was a Jew. Jews did not believe dead people go to heaven.
 

Quote:Love neighbor as self which for me= to help people like you with the truth of God's word, and to love God with all of my being= turn from a love of sin, and do what i can/understand to live as best i can in service to God..

you assumed no answer or a complicated one?

what is so hard to understand the golden rules?
Love God with all your being
love neighbor as yourself?

Actually Jesus said "Whatever you do the LEAST of these, you do to ME" .... whenever you insult people here, you are insulting Jesus ... clearly you love insulting people with all your being, not a god.
You insult Jesus all the time, as he said. You're the perfect example of a hypocrite.

Quote:Religion isn't a choose your own adventure book .It has very real metaphysical and  consequences many of which a totally incompatible .One of you is wrong and the other is right , And you have no means of telling a Buddhist you got it right .

Wrong again. You could both be wrong. 
BTW You just contradicted yourself. First you say it was/is a choice (see above) and here you say the opposite. Which is it, *sport* ? 

Quote:if you can not provide an example or proof/context then there is no further point to continue this discussion.

If you *cannot* spell the word "cannot" correctly, there is no reason to continue, as you obviously lack even a 5th Grade education.
I have no reason to discuss anything with a clearly ignorant fool.

2

(April 28, 2020 at 11:01 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 5:57 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Getting a little less small now that most countries don't carry a death sentence for atheism....

4% yeah you guys are setting the world on fire. when voltare the noted french atheist of the 1800's died he said (when atheism was at 3.5% within a 100 years all religion would be dead.) The international bible society bought his house and print bibles out of it now.

Why should I care what Voltaire's opinions on the future were or what happened to his house. There was no way to determine the percentage of atheists around the world in his day, where did you get 3.5% from?

(April 27, 2020 at 10:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 6:09 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Christians believe that Jesus was the divine son of god. You don't. You invented yourself a one-man cult.

This is false.  Early Christians had varying views of Jesus.  The earliest simply saw him as being fully Jewish, as was Jesus' view of himself.  Later groups began to see him, his life (which they mostly invented) and his death as having varying, often contradictory, meanings.  The groups that, over time, established themselves became the proto-orthodox, which evolved, over time, into various orthodox factions of Christendom.  The other groups were labeled as being "heretics" and/or simply died off over time.

Actually it's not false. 
It may not be entirely correct with respect to the early communities, but when orthodox Christianity was codified, it is true. 
By 325 in the creed developed at Nicaea, (which was argued about and non-unanimously voted on), he was said to be divine. 
From then on, Christians declared him to be divine, (which makes no sense as Jesus was a Jew, and NO one approached the status of Yahweh, AND a "son of god" was simply a righteous man. In each of the gospels, the divinity is different. It is present that early, with different views. 
In Hebrew culture, there were many divine beings, but none of them reached anything like the status of Yahweh.

(April 28, 2020 at 12:15 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(April 28, 2020 at 11:01 am)Drich Wrote: 4% yeah you guys are setting the world on fire. when voltare the noted french atheist of the 1800's died he said (when atheism was at 3.5% within a 100 years all religion would be dead.) The international bible society bought his house and print bibles out of it now.

Why should I care what Voltaire's opinions on the future were or what happened to his house. There was no way to determine the percentage of atheists around the world in his day, where did you get 3.5% from?

because he was king atheist and started the movement and grandfather the same BS arguments you guys still use. IE if he was wrong about his prediction based on information and an understanding of God you guys still follow then he was wrong about his base beliefs IE you in turn are wrong where your beliefs cross.. Do you people not even understand your origins and shared beliefs?

his house being used  is just insult to his proud proclamation.

---

(April 28, 2020 at 3:11 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(April 27, 2020 at 10:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: This is false.  Early Christians had varying views of Jesus.  The earliest simply saw him as being fully Jewish, as was Jesus' view of himself.  Later groups began to see him, his life (which they mostly invented) and his death as having varying, often contradictory, meanings.  The groups that, over time, established themselves became the proto-orthodox, which evolved, over time, into various orthodox factions of Christendom.  The other groups were labeled as being "heretics" and/or simply died off over time.

Actually it's not false. 
It may not be entirely correct with respect to the early communities, but when orthodox Christianity was codified, it is true. 
By 325 in the creed developed at Nicaea, (which was argued about and non-unanimously voted on), he was said to be divine. 
From then on, Christians declared him to be divine, (which makes no sense as Jesus was a Jew, and NO one approached the status of Yahweh, AND a "son of god" was simply a righteous man. In each of the gospels, the divinity is different. It is present that early, with different views. 
In Hebrew culture, there were many divine beings, but none of them reached anything like the status of Yahweh.

still 2 as not addressed to me.