(February 7, 2021 at 4:39 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(February 7, 2021 at 3:24 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

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Ah, so you just have an entirely different definition of terrorism, so it turns out we are talking about two completely different things. That's fine. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Of course we have different definitions; the American definition needs adjustment.

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(February 7, 2021 at 12:13 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I did not mean to accuse you of that, since you did not explicitly say that like the others did, but my rant was after quoting your post, so I can see how it looks that way and I apologise for that.

I remember a time when atheists used to mock conservatives for fearing that Sharia law could be implemented in Western countries in the future if we kept letting Muslims immigrate here, and now the big boogeyman is whitey who wants a white ethnostate. There isn't going to be a white ethnostate any more than there is going to be Sharia law or Christian theocracy. These are wild dreams that those extremist types have, that are never going to come to pass. Yeah, it's fucked up that some people may want a white ethnostate, kicking out every rightful citizen, but unless they have a magic wand, they're not getting their wish. They can have their naughty thoughts and I'm still not going to call that terrorism unless they do what the dictionary actually defines as terrorism. I'm not for making thought crime a thing.

And that folks, is a Trumpster white supremacist, believing in the Great Replacement theory; the theory again so you know it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

Quote:The Great Replacement (French: Grand Remplacement), also known as the replacement theory,[1][2] is a white nationalist[3] far-right[4] conspiracy theory[5][6][7] which states that, with the complicity or cooperation of "replacist" elites,[a][5][8] the white French population—as well as white European population at large—is being progressively replaced with non-European peoples—specifically Arab, Berber and sub-Saharan Muslim populations

I get it. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. That's fine. If you don't want to consider them terrorists, that's fine. Agree to disagree.

I was not saying that I am one of the people who worry about Sharia law being implemented because of immigration. I was saying that atheists, including myself, mocked conservatives for making that kind of argument.

I know what the great replacement theory is. At least in the US, some whites want less minorities immigrating because minorities are more likely to vote Democrat. Some Democrat voters want whites to no longer be the majority because whites vote Republican more than any other group. I get it.

Quote:I remember a time when atheists used to mock conservatives for fearing that Sharia law could be implemented in Western countries in the future if we kept letting Muslims immigrate here,

Some atheists did 

Quote: and now the big boogeyman is whitey who wants a white ethnostate.

No one said all white people want an ethnostate. Can you ever stop lying? And it's not a  boogeyman no matter how much denial you engage in.


 

Quote:There isn't going to be a white ethnostate any more than there is going to be Sharia law or Christian theocracy.

Says you and the threat of terrorism is not founded on whether their goals are realistic 

Quote: These are wild dreams that those extremist types have, that are never going to come to pass. Yeah, it's fucked up that some people may want a white ethnostate, 

Says you and the threat of terrorism is not founded on whether their goals are realistic 

Quote:kicking out every rightful citizen, but unless they have a magic wand, they're not getting their wish. 

Sigh no one kicking anyone out  and again says you

Quote:They can have their naughty thoughts and I'm still not going to call that terrorism unless they do what the dictionary actually defines as terrorism. 

No one said they can't but expressing those ideologies and acting to enact them must consequence, And gotta love your bullshit comparison between taboo thoughts and actual evil. Your attempt to say they're not terrorists fail they are.

Quote:I'm not for making thought crime a thing.

Nor is anyone else. Again your dishonesty is unbelievable

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(February 7, 2021 at 1:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: This is turning into a negative free association exercise.  Terrorists aren't designated for their dreams.  By all means, dream away, pretty sure you'll be clear with whatever the canadian excuse for an fbi happens to be.

True

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Quote:I get it. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. That's fine. If you don't want to consider them terrorists, that's fine. Agree to disagree.

White supremacy has nothing to do with freedom 

Quote:I was not saying that I am one of the people who worry about Sharia law being implemented because of immigration. I was saying that atheists, including myself, mocked conservatives for making that kind of argument.

Not even remotely the same 

Quote:Some Democrat voters want whites to no longer be the majority because whites vote Republican more than any other group. I get it.

Nonesense

(February 7, 2021 at 5:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

Quote:I remember a time when atheists used to mock conservatives for fearing that Sharia law could be implemented in Western countries in the future if we kept letting Muslims immigrate here,

Some atheists did 

Quote: and now the big boogeyman is whitey who wants a white ethnostate.

No one said all white people want an ethnostate. Can you ever stop lying? And it's not a  boogeyman no matter how much denial you engage in.


 

Quote:There isn't going to be a white ethnostate any more than there is going to be Sharia law or Christian theocracy.

Says you and the threat of terrorism is not founded on whether their goals are realistic 

Quote: These are wild dreams that those extremist types have, that are never going to come to pass. Yeah, it's fucked up that some people may want a white ethnostate, 

Says you and the threat of terrorism is not founded on whether their goals are realistic 

Quote:kicking out every rightful citizen, but unless they have a magic wand, they're not getting their wish. 

Sigh no one kicking anyone out  and again says you

Quote:They can have their naughty thoughts and I'm still not going to call that terrorism unless they do what the dictionary actually defines as terrorism. 

No one said they can't but expressing those ideologies and acting to enact them must consequence, And gotta love your bullshit comparison between taboo thoughts and actual evil. Your attempt to say they're not terrorists fail they are.

Quote:I'm not for making thought crime a thing.

Nor is anyone else. Again your dishonesty is unbelievable

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(February 7, 2021 at 1:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: This is turning into a negative free association exercise.  Terrorists aren't designated for their dreams.  By all means, dream away, pretty sure you'll be clear with whatever the canadian excuse for an fbi happens to be.

True

I never claimed anyone here said all white people want an ethnostate. Sorry if you got that impression.

I think I remember you posting that white supremacist ideology is terrorism. If I'm mistaken, I'm glad that I was and I'm glad you think people should have the freedom to have a white supremacist ideology. We are in agreement then. Let the white supremacists do their thing. Let the Muslim supremacists who think they're the only ones going to heaven do their thing. Let the Christian dominionists do their thing. Freedom for everyone. I'm glad we ended up agreeing on this.

Quote:I never claimed anyone here said all white people want an ethnostate. Sorry if you got that impression.

Then choose your word with greater care.

Quote:I think I remember you posting that white supremacist ideology is terrorism. If I'm mistaken, 

It is. But in their own heads, they are allowed to think it. If they bring it to the public sphere they are promoting a terrorist ideology and should be treated as such 

Quote:I'm glad that I was and I'm glad you think people should have the freedom to have a white supremacist ideology.

In their own heads absolutely in the public sphere no 

Quote:We are in agreement then. Let the white supremacists do their thing. Let the Muslim supremacists who think they're the only ones going to heaven do their thing. Let the Christian dominionists do their thing. Freedom for everyone. I'm glad we ended up agreeing on this.

No, we don't agree. You want violent dangerous ideologies to be given free rein to promote their bullshit and I don't. That's not promoting thought crimes that are preventing action. They can think whatever they want but expression, promotion, or organization to attempt their ends and we as a society must say NO!.

(February 7, 2021 at 5:43 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

Quote:I never claimed anyone here said all white people want an ethnostate. Sorry if you got that impression.

Then choose your word with greater care.

Quote:I think I remember you posting that white supremacist ideology is terrorism. If I'm mistaken, 

It is. But in their own heads, they are allowed to think it. If they bring it to the public sphere they are promoting a terrorist ideology and should be treated as such 

Quote:I'm glad that I was and I'm glad you think people should have the freedom to have a white supremacist ideology.

In their own heads absolutely in the public sphere no 

Quote:We are in agreement then. Let the white supremacists do their thing. Let the Muslim supremacists who think they're the only ones going to heaven do their thing. Let the Christian dominionists do their thing. Freedom for everyone. I'm glad we ended up agreeing on this.

No, we don't agree. You want violent dangerous ideologies to be given free rein to promote their bullshit and I don't. That's not promoting thought crimes that are preventing and action. They can think whatever they want but expression, promotion, or organization to attempt their ends and we as a society must say NO!.

I'm sure glad atheists in the US have had the freedom to express their thoughts, because as of 2016, they were still the most hated religious minority in the US https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/...inority-us

The membership of the KKK used to be massive, but is now a tiny fraction of what it used to be and a half black president was elected. This happened without the need to label people as terrorists. This shows you're wrong that we need protection from scary thoughts being expressed. Progress will happen without the need to label people as terrorists. Support for abortion and gay marriage is way up, and people didn't need to be designated as terrorists to make that happen. Progress has and will continue to happen without that. We don't need to be protected from the types who say the holocaust never happened or from scary tiki torches. We really don't. We'll be ok.

Quote:I'm sure glad atheists in the US have had the freedom to express their thoughts, because as of 2016, they were still the most hated religious minority in the US https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/...inority-us

Does Atheism inherently promote bigotry and fundamentally undermining of basic human rights, no? But white nationalism does as does white supremacy. Again you confuse unpopular speech with evil ideologies.

Quote:The membership of the KKK used to be massive, but is now a tiny fraction of what it used to be and a half black president was elected.

You realize the KKK was designated a terrorist group and they were widely fought on all front again and again. They didn't just disappear magically one day, And the struggle to get to a point where we could get a black president was one of society saying NO! to white nationalists and bigots and rendering their obscene views unacceptable in polite society, And he still faced racism and bigotry.

Quote: This happened without the need to label people as terrorists.

It happened by making their views unacceptable to society and fighting their bullshit attempts to promote their idealogy.

 

Quote:This shows you're wrong that we need protection from scary thoughts being expressed.

No, it really doesn't in fact the opposite( And I never used the word protection please stop the strawmen) I love how to turn white nationalism into simply a "scary" as if it's just taboo rather than fundamentally dehumanizing and affront to morality itself.

 

Quote:Progress will happen without the need to label people as terrorists. 

Progress is society's eternal struggle against evil. It doesn't just happen and it can just as easily go the other way. This is why vigilance is needed because the monsters are always clawing at the gate waiting for weakness.

Quote:Support for abortion and gay marriage is way up, and people didn't need to be designated as terrorists to make that happen. 

People had to fight for all of that. It didn't just happen. They told homophobes and misogynists NO! and made their views unacceptable to society.

Quote:Progress has and will continue to happen without that.

Wrong people must fight for progress and the forces of regression are always there trying to take us backward. History shown over and over again a small group of nutbars can undo a generation of progress.

 

Quote:We don't need to be protected from the types who say the holocaust never happened or from scary tiki torches.

Society has struggled against people just like them and people just like them have undone progress before. Progress is NOT INEVITABLE and regression can always happen.
(And I never used the word protection please stop the strawmen)

Quote: We really don't. We'll be ok.

Laughably naive and ignorant. Thank goodness all those who fought for progress and defended it didn't take your view.

(February 7, 2021 at 7:10 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

Quote:I'm sure glad atheists in the US have had the freedom to express their thoughts, because as of 2016, they were still the most hated religious minority in the US https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/...inority-us

Does Atheism inherently promote bigotry and fundamentally undermining of basic human rights, no? But white nationalism does as does white supremacy. Again you confuse unpopular speech with evil ideologies.

Quote:The membership of the KKK used to be massive, but is now a tiny fraction of what it used to be and a half black president was elected.

You realize the KKK was designated a terrorist group and they were widely fought on all front again and again. They didn't just disappear magically one day, And the struggle to get to a point where we could get a black president was one of society saying NO! to white nationalists and bigots and rendering their obscene views unacceptable in polite society, And he still faced racism and bigotry.

Quote: This happened without the need to label people as terrorists.

It happened by making their views unacceptable to society and fighting their bullshit attempts to promote their idealogy.

 

Quote:This shows you're wrong that we need protection from scary thoughts being expressed.

No, it really doesn't in fact the opposite( And I never used the word protection please stop the strawmen) I love how to turn white nationalism into simply a "scary" as if it's just taboo rather than fundamentally dehumanizing and affront to morality itself.

 

Quote:Progress will happen without the need to label people as terrorists. 

Progress is society's eternal struggle against evil. It doesn't just happen and it can just as easily go the other way. This is why vigilance is needed because the monsters are always clawing at the gate waiting for weakness.

Quote:Support for abortion and gay marriage is way up, and people didn't need to be designated as terrorists to make that happen. 

People had to fight for all of that. It didn't just happen. They told homophobes and misogynists NO! and made their views unacceptable to society.

Quote:Progress has and will continue to happen without that.

Wrong people must fight for progress and the forces of regression are always there trying to take us backward. History shown over and over again a small group of nutbars can undo a generation of progress.

 

Quote:We don't need to be protected from the types who say the holocaust never happened or from scary tiki torches.

Society has struggled against people just like them and people just like them have undone progress before. Progress is NOT INEVITABLE and regression can always happen.
(And I never used the word protection please stop the strawmen)

Quote: We really don't. We'll be ok.

Laughably naive and ignorant. Thank goodness all those who fought for progress and defended it didn't take your view.

You are right about the KKK. I just read up on the Ku Klux Act, which was later ruled unconstitutional. The was a far different time than we are living in now though. Racism was rampant back then, but that's not the case in this day and age. We are living in pretty much the most peaceful time in human history.

Does the Quran promote fundamentally undermining basic human rights? Sure, but people have freedom of religion. Atheism doesn't fundamentally promote anything other than lacking belief, but I'm sure a lot of people would like to censor us and prevent us from influencing their children. I'm sure a lot of people see criticism of or mocking their religion as a form of hate speech. Remember that newspaper article that asked if Richard Dawkins is the most dangerous man in Britain? Evil is in the eye of the beholder. You don't mind Antifa, but the former POTUS supposedly wanted to classify them as all being terrorists. They have the freedom to assemble though. I think it's a very good thing that Presidents aren't out there just labelling entire groups of people as terrorists on a whim because they feel like it. I will defend even the people that I disagree with the most.

Quote:You are right about the KKK. I just read up on the Ku Klux Act, which was later ruled unconstitutional.

Irrelevant to the fact there was a will to do it. Also, undermine my point they were fought and ousted from society.

Quote: The was a far different time than we are living in now though.

Times change but the struggle does not 

Quote: Racism was rampant back then, but that's not the case in this day and age.

Racism none the less is and those who promote it must be reckoned with 

Quote: We are living in pretty much the most peaceful time in human history.

Pinkerton nonsense  

Quote:Does the Quran promote fundamentally undermining basic human rights?

Yup and violet Islamic nutters who promote those ideas can be considered terrorists. Though of course, not all Muslims or even Muslims do. 

Quote: Sure, but people have freedom of religion.

Yup and a great many Muslims do not promote those Anti-human rights ideas. Islam can interpret many ways to be compatible with modernity. White nationalism and white supremacy cannot 

Quote: Atheism doesn't fundamentally promote anything other than lacking belief, but I'm sure a lot of people would like to censor us and prevent us from influencing their children. 

Then they are wrong. That's simply unpopular speech nothing like white nationalism or Christain dominionism 

Quote:I'm sure a lot of people see criticism of or mocking their religion as a form of hate speech. 

Which it isn't 

Quote:Remember that newspaper article that asked if Richard Dawkins is the most dangerous man in Britain? Evil is in the eye of the beholder. 

Not the same thing, And no evil is not. You can't compare atheism to white nationalism nor can you compare merely unpopular speech with evil ideologies. So again false equivalency.

Quote:You don't mind Antifa, but the former POTUS supposedly wanted to classify them as all being terrorists.

And he would be wrong to do so there is nothing inherently evil about opposing fascism and it's not on the same level of White supremacy.

Quote: They have the freedom to assemble though. 

There is nothing wrong with promoting antifascism  

Quote:I think it's a very good thing that Presidents aren't out there just labeling entire groups of people as terrorists on a whim because they feel like it.

Only if they aren't promoting evil ideologies.

Quote: I will defend even the people that I disagree with the most.

And they will pay you back with treachery night of the long knives style.

Neither of us want Antifa designated as terrorists, but the difference between you and I is that if it were up to you, you would have given the former POTUS the power to do so. Why would you want to give someone like him even more power?

Those in favour of an ethnostate would pay people back by taking away free speech. That would be their first act, because they fear free speech. Those types openly admit that the last thing they would want in their perfect world is freedom of speech. Something you and them have in common. You despise free speech.

Quote:Neither of us want Antifa designated as terrorists, but the difference between you and I is that if it were up to you, you would have given the former POTUS the power to do so. 

I don't want them to be designated a terrorist group because there nothing inherently terrorist about being against fascism. I can't speak to your motives.,And no I don't want the POTUS to have the power to call what isn't a terrorist group a terrorist group. Unlike White Nationalism or White Supremecy which is by idealogy alone. 

Quote:Why would you want to give someone like him even more power?

I don't 

Quote:Those in favour of an ethnostate would pay people back by taking away free speech.

They intend to do that anyway. But they can be prevented from doing so by the merit they are white nationalists or white supremacists

Quote: That would be their first act, because they fear free speech.

No, they love free speech it's the perfect tool for them to spread their idealogy. Till they win and take it all away. 

Quote: Those types openly admit that the last thing they would want in their perfect world is freedom of speech.

The opposite they are the ones always whining they are being censored or playing the role of free speech warrior. They want it to be as free as possible till of course, They take over.

Quote: Something you and them have in common. 

Nope, They want to curtail all speech I don't. I simply don't believe in unlimited speech as it's a self-contradicting self-defeating idea. Free Speech has to have limits or it cannot be. 

Quote:You despise free speech.

Nope, I despise the irrationality of free speech extremists that want to pretend all speech is valid no matter what and that all ideologies are equally entitled to it.