I think it's disgusting to the the Nth degree.

And if only for that reason alone - I cannot support the DP.

EvF

Quote:people who drive while using a cell phone,

I extend that to anyone who uses a cell phone loudly in a public place, and anyone who drives a 4x4 in a city. (and if I'm in a really bad mood,Dr Phil and Oprah)

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Quote:I think it's disgusting to the the Nth degree.

And if only for that reason alone - I cannot support the DP.

Well,I guess no one can accuse you of being intellectually deep.

I meant the fact that that many innocent people have been death row...I find that absolutely disgusting and reason enough to not support the DP - the point that innocent people could get executed.

Do I need to delve deeper than that? :S

My point is that I don't think I need to go much deeper than that...I can and already have doen - but the fundamental point for me is the fact innocent people can die. I'd rather guilty people go than innocent people be executed.

EvF

I meant the fact that that many innocent people have been death row...I find that absolutely disgusting and reason enough to not support the DP -

I though that's what you mean.

My point is personal disgust (which I share) is an emotional responsible not a rational argument. There is no way to know how many (IF ANY) people freed due to unsafe convictions were innocent of the crime(s) for which they had been convicted. The law has little to do with justice, guilt or innocence. It's about what can be proven "beyond reason doubt" based on available evidence,which maybe limited;EG a large proportion of convictions [not obtained by plea bargain] are the result of circumstantial evidence. A good lawyer can often get an accused acquitted if that's all the prosecution presents. (EG OJ Simpson,Michael Jackson).

I do not support capital punishment in principle. I've never seen a convincing moral argument ,and the pragmatic arguments are contentious. I also think the US stance on death by lethal injection is precious and utterly hypocritical. It was introduced to protect the squeamish;death by gas and electric chair especially can apparently be quite gruesome an distressing to watch.(we can't have THAT;it might put people off capital punishment).It has nothing whatsoever to do with common humanity. I think the Chinese method of a bullet in the brain is far more honest and humane.

(June 18, 2009 at 12:10 am)padraic Wrote: My point is personal disgust (which I share) is an emotional responsible not a rational argument.

If by not a rational argument u mean it's emotional and non-objective then yes! It's not rational! (Although I do have my own personal, subjective 'reasons').

I just think the fact that innocent people can die like that, that that can happen because of the DP is the #1 reason I'm against the DP (my primary reason) - I've given my other reasons. But the point is that that's the primary one.

And my other point is morals are entirely subjective! So the fact I think it's disgusting that innocent people can die like that because of it...I think that's certainly a very strong reason (at least in my eyes) for being against the DP. Yes it's subjective, yes it's just due to my own personal feelings and empathy, my own opinion - but morals are subjective! I personally am against it simply because I care.

EvF

I think death penalty isn't useful just by itself. You kill criminals, but other criminals will be born, so we do a research about the causes of criminality, for example, poverty. Then, get ways to reduce the causes, so less people will become criminals. It's cutting the roots of all.

Now, we all know this won't be 100% useful, there will always be criminals. And this is where death penalty takes place. You don't have to search a lot to realize that killing the guys is better in a lot of ways. One of them is economy. Jails are maintained from taxes, and this taxes are OUR money. In other words, we are feeding these fellas who don't deserve it.
It's useful too as a way of giving fear to the criminals. They will think twice doing a crime because it won't be just their freedom, but their lives.

This might be some offensive comparison, forgive me if someone fells insulted, but having jails is like if you have a house (a country), and you have rats there. You get to catch the rats and put them in a box, you feed them, but they are not useful for anything, not even for pets.

I don't feel it's within a government's duty to execute it's citizens and I'm not convinced the death penalty is an effective crime deterrant.

I disagree as long as the case is proven without a doubt I believe in the death penalty.For all you christians out there that decide to refute me read your bibles.In the O.T. God advocated the death penalty for any reason,try reading the book of Leviticus.I think that as long as the case is beyond refute that the culprit is guilty then he should be executed.No appeals,no mercy get tried today and executed tomorrow.

(August 3, 2009 at 3:06 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I disagree as long as the case is proven without a doubt I believe in the death penalty.

I agree ... what I can't accept is that there can ever be a case that is absolutely "without doubt"

Kyu

(August 3, 2009 at 3:06 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I disagree as long as the case is proven without a doubt I believe in the death penalty.For all you christians out there that decide to refute me read your bibles.In the O.T. God advocated the death penalty for any reason,try reading the book of Leviticus.I think that as long as the case is beyond refute that the culprit is guilty then he should be executed.No appeals,no mercy get tried today and executed tomorrow.

Executing innocent people is the crucial argument against, I would have thought and doubt is always there. You can't have a death penalty for murder where some are executed and others are not.