He clearly finds it less objectionable to be a bitch to republicans than a bitch to democrats. That makes him deserving of taking the same broomstick up his ass as what needs to be shoved up the ass and out the mouth of any others who care to call themselves republican.

(November 29, 2011 at 7:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I think we can all agree that everyone, bar Dr. Paul, in the Republican field is batshit insane.

We disagree. He is batshit crazy too.

You disagree. There are plenty of libertarian members here, remember.

(November 29, 2011 at 7:47 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Ron Paul may be the best of current options, but that doesn't make him suddenly palatable.

Though, if it boils down to voting in the local primaries, I'm going to vote in the repub primaries for Huntsman or Paul. Why? Because batshit never deserves a fighting chance.

As the incumbent historically wins, it would be rude of me to not let the Republican party know that I, as a voter, disapprove of their evangelical, fascist hijinks. The DNC can have it's echo chamber. Maybe it will grow them some balls.

If Paul or Huntsman win their primaries, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But if any other BS repub wins, I'm gonna have to liquor myself up and vote Odrama.

Huntsman wants to invade Pakistan and start a bloodshed there, and wants to enhance the Patriot Act. Huntsman will never get my vote. But we can't just choose someone else from the status quo and expect that something different will happen. We have to make it happen!

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(November 29, 2011 at 7:56 pm)Chuck Wrote: He clearly finds it less objectionable to be a bitch to republicans than a bitch to democrats. That makes him deserving of taking the same broomstick up his ass as what needs to be shoved up the ass and out the mouth of any others who care to call themselves republican.

What has to happen to us to finally see through the curtain? Democrats and Republicans are 2 wings of the same bird...we the people can vote all we want, but the flight plan never changes. I don't care if a President has an "R" or a "D" behind his name, Presidents come and go, but the war party always stays in power!

The next president can invade hell for all I care so long as he acts effectively at home to contain and roll back the influence of social and religious conservatives.

(November 29, 2011 at 8:10 pm)Chuck Wrote: The next president can invade hell for all I care so long as he acts effectively at home to contain and roll back the influence of social and religious conservatives.

Well we'll go bankrupt if we continue this overseas aggression. Putting an end to the Federal Reserve bank will help us monumentally. It is the sole reason why we are able to be overseas in the first place. If we had no central bank printing up money like it was monopoly money, we'd have to foot the bill for these wars upfront by raising taxes. And I know of noone, except maybe Warren Buffet, that wants to pay more taxes! So we'd think mighty hard before we rush off to war. It would be for a damn good reason, no trumped up charges either! Our soldiers are to important to be needlessly used as lambs to the slaughter!

I think I have an interesting solution to our problem as progressives. Our problem is that we're in a Catch 22. We are stuck with a strictly two-party system. For those outside America, I can only say briefly that our Byzantine system is rigged in such a way that a vote for a 3rd party is little more than a symbolic gesture.

The way it's supposed to work is the two parties are supposed to oppose each other. Instead, we have a two party system that represents more a "good corporate cop, bad corporate cop" systems where the Republicans beat the crap out of us while the Democrats say, "Look, I'd like to help you but we gotta be realistic and give this guy something..."

The problem started roughly around the 90s when Clinton made his center-right administration work by the force of his personality. Since then, Democrats continue to run to the right in order to capture that elusive "center". The Republicans do the same, going further and further right with each election.

What's worse is that the trend is against us. The "center" has moved further and further to the right and will continue to do so as long as Democrats cling to the "Republican Lite" strategy.

So it seems progressives have two horrible options (pick your poison):

1. Hold our noses and vote for the spineless conserva-Dem who's sole redeeming quality is that the Republican is worse. Doing so will validate the Democrat strategy that they can take us for granted and they will continue to run to the right.

2. Vote 3rd party hoping to "send a message". The result is the Republicans will likely win. Still, you can hope it's a tactical retreat and that the Democrat party will learn it's lesson and stop throwing us under the bus. They probably won't.

OK, having reviewed this bleak situation, here's my suggestion on a third strategy:

It depends on which state you live in.

If you live in a "blue state" or a "swing state", hold your nose and vote for Obama.

If you live in a "red state", one that went McCain in the last election, vote third party.

This strategy will not deny Obama any electoral votes, since winner-take-all ensures that my vote in my red state won't matter anyway. Whether a state goes 51/49 or 100% makes no difference, all electoral votes go to the winner.

However, this red-state-3rd-party strategy will ensure the 3rd party has a strong showing. It's a symbolic gesture but we lose nothing by trying it. If it works, it may be a shot off the DLC's bow and send a strong message that we're sick of being thrown under the bus.

How about option 3. civilian coup of the united states government.

My mind remains unchanged. I'm still voting for Obama in 2012. Ron Paul is an idiot. He wants to sell off our public land! As a socialist at heart, I wouldn't vote for him with a gun to my head.

As someone with morals, I can't vote for him because he's a disgusting racist and a homophobe! Everything I stand against!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de_CSuJCsfY

He honestly doesn't stand a chance, thank gravity! None of them do!

I like that. Strategic voting from progressive voters without creating an either-or scenario.

Ron Paul has on a few occasions, denounced those quotes. And on race, is Obama going to help minorities more or is the guy who wants to end the war on drugs? How many minorities sit in jail only being arrested on a drug charge? We are wasting precious resources on something that should be legal in the first place, that's why we had Al Capone's in the 20s. Because alcohol was illegal, and when a product is illegal, there is tremendous demand. Look at all the violence plaguing Mexico and Arizona on drug cartels and such. Make drugs legal, and waaam, problem solved!

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The only time a US soldier should fire a single shot, is to protect this country, not some foreign country 6,000 mils away. Our brave men and women need to be greeted with hugs and handshakes, not with pipe bombs and rpgs. Ron Paul knows that the only way to truly support the troops is to bring them home!