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HappySkeptic · July 27, 2022 at 4:55 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 4:37 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Scientific first principles are universal, things like the Conservation laws, empirical observation, testability, repeatability, predictability and falsifiability of theories, philosophical realism, methodological naturalism, etc.

Conservation laws aren't first principles. Just saying Smile

I agree with the rest, but there is the philosophy of science is an ongoing thing. Popper wasn't the end of it.

Jehanne · July 27, 2022 at 5:14 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 4:55 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:
(July 27, 2022 at 4:37 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Scientific first principles are universal, things like the Conservation laws, empirical observation, testability, repeatability, predictability and falsifiability of theories, philosophical realism, methodological naturalism, etc.

Conservation laws aren't first principles. Just saying

I agree with the rest, but there is the philosophy of science is an ongoing thing. Popper wasn't the end of it.

I'm not a practicing scientist nor do I have a PhD, but, the professional chemists that I have read presume the basis of things like Conservation of Mass, entropy, etc.; in fact, such is the basis of stoichiometry, as far as I can tell. Granted, such principles are ultimately testable, but chemists simply presume such when they are designing and testing their reactions.

**The Grand Nudger** · July 27, 2022 at 5:19 pm

-because the laws of chemistry could have been some other way - but they aren't.

Jehanne · July 27, 2022 at 5:57 pm

Turning water into wine is, chemically speaking, physically impossible. For those who say such happened, please provide the stoichiometric calculations.

Angrboda · (This post was last modified: July 27, 2022 at 6:32 pm by Angrboda.)

Didn't a famous female mathematician prove that where certain symmetries exist, and they do, conservation laws are inevitable.

Quote:Noether's theorem or Noether's first theorem states that every differentiable symmetry of the action of a physical system with conservative forces has a corresponding conservation law. The theorem was proven by mathematician Emmy Noether in 1915 and published in 1918. The action of a physical system is the integral over time of a Lagrangian function, from which the system's behavior can be determined by the principle of least action. This theorem only applies to continuous and smooth symmetries over physical space.

Noether's theorem is used in theoretical physics and the calculus of variations. A generalization of the formulations on constants of motion in Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics (developed in 1788 and 1833, respectively), it does not apply to systems that cannot be modeled with a Lagrangian alone (e.g., systems with a Rayleigh dissipation function). In particular, dissipative systems with continuous symmetries need not have a corresponding conservation law.

Wikipedia || Noether's theorem

**Neo-Scholastic** · July 27, 2022 at 8:38 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 5:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Turning water into wine is, chemically speaking, physically impossible. For those who say such happened, please provide the stoichiometric calculations.

Ummmm....its called brewing.

Jehanne · July 27, 2022 at 9:08 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 8:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(July 27, 2022 at 5:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Turning water into wine is, chemically speaking, physically impossible. For those who say such happened, please provide the stoichiometric calculations.

Ummmm....its called brewing.

Oh, and so, Jesus had a portable still with him that day??

**Neo-Scholastic** · July 27, 2022 at 9:31 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(July 27, 2022 at 8:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Ummmm....its called brewing.

Oh, and so, Jesus had a portable still with him that day??

First, the meager scriptural description and the broad meaning of "wine" leaves open a few possibilities. As a home brewer, I can say that all you need to make something to fit the OT definition of wine is water, yeast, and sugar source. So, no, not impossible...unlikely maybe

The Architect Of Fate · July 27, 2022 at 9:35 pm

Last I checked Jesus turned water into wine via touch so........ Dodgy

Jehanne · July 27, 2022 at 9:45 pm

(July 27, 2022 at 9:31 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(July 27, 2022 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Oh, and so, Jesus had a portable still with him that day??

First, the meager scriptural description and the broad meaning of "wine" leaves open a few possibilities. As a home brewer, I can say that all you need to make something to fit the OT definition of wine is water, yeast, and sugar source. So, no, not impossible...unlikely maybe

I think that the Gospels are better understood along the lines of heroic literature, akin to the works of Homer, which involved the mishmash of various stories that were in circulation about Jesus.

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