(October 16, 2022 at 3:55 am)Belacqua Wrote: We'd want to be sure that we don't have a double standard involved, where it's OK for our team but not for theirs.

When did anyone, at anytime, on this board indicated that its ok for any country to invade any other country, particularly with the excuse of "having been forced to"?

Quote:I just think it's sad that everybody knows who Luke Skywalker is but almost nobody knows Toussaint Louverture. 

This has zilch to do with the current situation. The criminal gangs are not some sort of well-meaning rebellion. They are a group of thugs trying to cease power for themselves. Jimmy Chérizier is no freedom fighter he's an opportunist.

Quote:It's as if Haiti has never been forgiven for being the first place in the Americas to get out from under colonial rule. It's shocking what's been done to them since.

This has zilch to do with the current situation. Helping Haiti fight a group of heavily armed thugs is not an act of colonialism.

(October 16, 2022 at 5:40 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 16, 2022 at 4:45 am)Peebothuhlu Wrote: Oh...

Okay... that clears up a few things for me.

I'm of the opinion it's wrong for ANY country to invade ANY WHERE.

So Haiti's troubles has nothing to do with the troubles in Europe, got ya.  

Not at work.

I just think it's sad that everybody knows who Luke Skywalker is but almost nobody knows Toussaint Louverture. 

It's as if Haiti has never been forgiven for being the first place in the Americas to get out from under colonial rule. It's shocking what's been done to them since.

You are going to fall over if you keep reaching so far.

Look, if the us cant be the colonizer in the ukraine story, he'll settle for americans being dumb, okay? Negotiation, comrade.

(October 16, 2022 at 5:40 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 16, 2022 at 4:45 am)Peebothuhlu Wrote: Oh...

Okay... that clears up a few things for me.

I'm of the opinion it's wrong for ANY country to invade ANY WHERE.

So Haiti's troubles has nothing to do with the troubles in Europe, got ya.  

Not at work.

I just think it's sad that everybody knows who Luke Skywalker is but almost nobody knows Toussaint Louverture. 

It's as if Haiti has never been forgiven for being the first place in the Americas to get out from under colonial rule. It's shocking what's been done to them since.

(Bold mine)

I think you'll find that was the United States. So, you know, good job on the history.

Boru

Oops, obviously I made a mistake earlier. I said that Haiti was the first to gain its independence, but of course the US was before that.

In an important way the US was the first to do it and the last to get away with it.

As everyone knows, the War of Independence was fought for Liberty, Justice, and All Good Things. It's important to remember that it was fought largely over who got to control the cotton.

Cotton was an extremely valuable commodity in those days, but the people who profited were those who processed and wove it, not those who grew it. Britain used America as its source for the raw material but refused to allow them the technology or the economic freedom to do the processing. The British wanted the profit for themselves, of course. American producers wanted the extra value gained through processing, so they fought for independence. (This is probably not well known by people who get their history from AmericaFuckYeah.gov.)

Britain was careful not to make the same mistake twice, so when they moved their cotton growing source to Egypt they were careful to control industry there too. No factories or technology to get the value that Britain wanted for itself. If the technology is held down then obviously the economy and consequently education is held down. This is why Napoleon bothered to conquer Egypt and why it remains a poor country. It must not be allowed to develop.

The US did the same to Haiti and many other countries, requiring sources of cheap labor so that rich people in the US could keep the profits for themselves. The Clintons helped. The invasion force that's on its way will maintain this status quo, not help to enrich the people of Haiti.

This is ultimately what the current war is about also. The US requires that no other area be allowed to develop to the point where it can compete. Propaganda, again, insists that the US has nothing to do with this war, that it is only New Modern Hitler trying to enlarge his territory. Very naive people believe this. The governments of Russia and China of course know the history and the policies of the US better than most Americans. Whenever you read propaganda from any of these governments, it's necessary to keep this larger goal in mind.

I guess we just can't take putins word for it when he says he launched an invasion to secure more territory.

(October 16, 2022 at 7:57 am)Belacqua Wrote: Oops, obviously I made a mistake earlier. I said that Haiti was the first to gain its independence, but of course the US was before that.

In an important way the US was the first to do it and the last to get away with it.

As everyone knows, the War of Independence was fought for Liberty, Justice, and All Good Things. It's important to remember that it was fought largely over who got to control the cotton.

Cotton was an extremely valuable commodity in those days, but the people who profited were those who processed and wove it, not those who grew it. Britain used America as its source for the raw material but refused to allow them the technology or the economic freedom to do the processing. The British wanted the profit for themselves, of course. American producers wanted the extra value gained through processing, so they fought for independence. (This is probably not well known by people who get their history from AmericaFuckYeah.gov.)

Britain was careful not to make the same mistake twice, so when they moved their cotton growing source to Egypt they were careful to control industry there too. No factories or technology to get the value that Britain wanted for itself. If the technology is held down then obviously the economy and consequently education is held down. This is why Napoleon bothered to conquer Egypt and why it remains a poor country. It must not be allowed to develop.

The US did the same to Haiti and many other countries, requiring sources of cheap labor so that rich people in the US could keep the profits for themselves. The Clintons helped. The invasion force that's on its way will maintain this status quo, not help to enrich the people of Haiti.

This is ultimately what the current war is about also. The US requires that no other area be allowed to develop to the point where it can compete. Propaganda, again, insists that the US has nothing to do with this war, that it is only New Modern Hitler trying to enlarge his territory. Very naive people believe this. The governments of Russia and China of course know the history and the policies of the US better than most Americans. Whenever you read propaganda from any of these governments, it's necessary to keep this larger goal in mind.

Translation: I got my conspiracy-riddled, ill-informed arse handed to me over Ukraine, so I’ll switch to conspiracy-riddled, ill-informed pronouncements about Haiti and colonial America.

Boru

(October 16, 2022 at 5:40 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 16, 2022 at 4:45 am)Peebothuhlu Wrote: Oh...

Okay... that clears up a few things for me.

I'm of the opinion it's wrong for ANY country to invade ANY WHERE.

So Haiti's troubles has nothing to do with the troubles in Europe, got ya.  

Not at work.

I just think it's sad that everybody knows who Luke Skywalker is but almost nobody knows Toussaint Louverture. 

It's as if Haiti has never been forgiven for being the first place in the Americas to get out from under colonial rule. It's shocking what's been done to them since.

I know enough about Toussaint L'Ouverture to a) spell his name correctly and b) know that he turned into something of a tyrant.

(October 16, 2022 at 5:40 am)Belacqua Wrote: I just think it's sad that everybody knows who Luke Skywalker is but almost nobody knows Toussaint Louverture. 

How do you know that nobody on this board knew Toussaint Louverture?