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Current time: November 9, 2024, 11:50 pm
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Any Nihilists here?
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 13, 2023 at 10:02 am
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2023 at 11:07 am by Bucky Ball.)
(August 13, 2023 at 9:15 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I think your experience in not seeing the word factual very often might represent the work of the committees rather than the majority position of contemporary moral philosophy. Moral realism isn't novel or rare, it's the standard assumption. I would be horrified if some provider did or didn't give me care based on non factual premises and statements. The word fact / factual was used in the thread. I was simply commenting on the use of the (same) word. Moral realism is assumed, as you say. A diagnosis is almost never a "fact", it's an (hopefully) informed judgement, until proven (if ever). A diagnosis is a "working hypothesis", (which is often changed from the initial impression) in complex inpatient cases anyway. The History and Physical very often includes (in academic medicine anyway), the statement "differential (diagnoses) include : (then a list of possible diagnoses). A possible "purpose" might be seen as "the survival of the species". Individuals are clearly not individually important in that process, and the fact that 99 % of all species that ever existed are extinct, probably negates this view, unless the fact we are not extinct might counter that.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist (August 11, 2023 at 2:46 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Nihilism comes in a variety of flavours. Anyone here find nihilist a good descriptor for their worldview? In the strong sense, no. I don't think there's any premade ultimate purpose to existence, but in our introspections and observations as we interact with other people and things, we appear to be of use to others and that other people and things can be of use to us, meet whatever needs and wants we may have. In this sense, we've "discovered" functional purposes, you could say. But really, purpose is something we construct in a subconscious way. But then again, isn't that something a nihilist would/could accept? I'm of course overlooking all the variants and brands of nihilism, and thinking of nihilism in the sense that there is no purpose or meaning to life (never mind that some folks differentiate between purpose and meaning). And there's the struggle that often times we may be using the same word but using it differently from one another. I may not be a nihilist according to my definition, but a nihilist according to someone else's. This is why, as Bucky suggested, it's important to define relevant terms here. (August 12, 2023 at 9:01 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:(August 12, 2023 at 4:53 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: I see no way that freewill can exist. I see no way moral statements can be factual, right or wrong. Since free will relies on the premise that counterfactuals are at least possible in principle, and we don't have epistemic access to counterfactuals, it will always remain an unscientific concept, unless we can build a time machine to find out what we will, in fact, do, and return to attempt to make the counterfactual real.
It may be an untestable concept in principle, but there is no denying it has been a useful concept for the purpose of modeling and regulating human social behavior.
RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 13, 2023 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2023 at 10:43 am by GrandizerII.)
(August 13, 2023 at 10:28 am)LinuxGal Wrote:(August 12, 2023 at 9:01 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The fact that free will can not exist means you don’t have a choice in whether or not believe in free wheel or see moral statements as factual or not. You don't need to go through all that trouble to have "epistemic access" to counterfactuals. Counterfactuals are right there, in your mind. Unless, of course, you're talking about concrete possible worlds here, and not just abstact? Also, there are different flavors of "free will". (August 13, 2023 at 10:42 am)GrandizerII Wrote:(August 13, 2023 at 10:28 am)LinuxGal Wrote: Since free will relies on the premise that counterfactuals are at least possible in principle, and we don't have epistemic access to counterfactuals, it will always remain an unscientific concept, unless we can build a time machine to find out what we will, in fact, do, and return to attempt to make the counterfactual real. Alice and Bob measure a stream a particle-pairs in a singlet state. Alice sets her polarizer at 37.5 degrees off vertical, and Bob sets his to 77.4 degrees off vertical. We believe Bob could have set his detector to any orientation but all we know is that he set it to that one. So free will remains a matter of faith. RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 13, 2023 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2023 at 12:06 pm by GrandizerII.)
(August 13, 2023 at 11:07 am)LinuxGal Wrote:(August 13, 2023 at 10:42 am)GrandizerII Wrote: You don't need to go through all that trouble to have "epistemic access" to counterfactuals. Counterfactuals are right there, in your mind. Unless, of course, you're talking about concrete possible worlds here, and not just abstact? That's fair. I would agree that believing Bob could have set his detector to some other orientation is a different sort of doxastic attitude than knowing that he set it to one specific setting. And it seems like you were referring to concrete counterfactuals anyway in your case against "free will". RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 13, 2023 at 12:11 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2023 at 12:28 pm by Bucky Ball.)
(August 13, 2023 at 11:07 am)LinuxGal Wrote:(August 13, 2023 at 10:42 am)GrandizerII Wrote: You don't need to go through all that trouble to have "epistemic access" to counterfactuals. Counterfactuals are right there, in your mind. Unless, of course, you're talking about concrete possible worlds here, and not just abstact? There is no doubt that whatever decision is made "in the moment", is 100 % dependent on what "is already" in the electrical circuitry (? "memory" ) of the human brain. If not, please play for me the Emperor Concerto, right now. One of my favorite researchers : https://eagleman.com/
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist (August 12, 2023 at 12:45 pm)Angrboda Wrote:(August 12, 2023 at 12:01 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: To be somewhat controversial, I can't really see how one doesn't end up with a nihilistic set of beliefs if one thinks a physicalist universe is most likely. Kinda sounds like trying have your cake and eat it too.
<insert profound quote here>
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