(September 15, 2023 at 9:49 am)LinuxGal Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 9:26 am)Data Wrote: Immanuel means god is with us. That prophecy was fulfilled at Matthew 1:22-23.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God...

That's Jesus explicitly denying that he is "God with us".

Correct. Sort of. Jesus wasn't literally God. He wasn't God Almighty, he was a mighty god.  He was the perfect representation or spokesperson, the word of God. You've seen him, you've seen God. No man has seen God's face and lived.

(September 15, 2023 at 10:19 am)Data Wrote: No man has seen God's face and lived.

On the contrary, it is written (Exodus 33:11): And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend...

@Data,

Are you going to answer the question?

(September 15, 2023 at 12:26 am)Ravenshire Wrote: In a fight, who would win? Medusa, or an angel?

Why are we blessed with such an abundance of wingnuts?

(September 15, 2023 at 10:08 am)Data Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 9:42 am)LinuxGal Wrote: The only thing that was on his shoulders was a red robe for about five minutes, maybe, as the Romans mocked him as king of the Jews.  This prophecy was salt in his whip wounds. As for Jesus being the "Everlasting Father" that's a heresy called modalism.

You find it difficult to stay focused on the topic? The point is, your allegation of Isaiah's monotheism is faulty.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

That's pretty darn clear. Isaiah is teaching monotheism pure and simple.

(September 14, 2023 at 9:47 pm)Data Wrote: I thought anti-theists were just against theists.

Technically, anti-theists are against theism, not theists. They think no one should believe in any gods, but it doesn't imply they would do anything 'about the theists' in additon to just being disapproving of their theistic belief.

Even more technically (and definitely more pedantically), you wouldn't actually have to be an atheist to be an anti-theist; you could believe a god or God exists and also think no one should believe it. I'm not sure there actually is such a person in real life, though.

(September 14, 2023 at 10:19 pm)Data Wrote:

(September 14, 2023 at 10:01 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: No archaeological evidence been discovered in Egypt or the Sinai to support the story in which Moses is the central figure, and no wonder, since the work was created during the Babylonian Vacation in the 6th Century BCE.

Okay. Switching gears. I hear you. I disagree that there isn't any evidence of Moses, there's thousands of years of evidence for Moses, but let's set that aside for now and you tell me what evidence there is for the work having been created during the Babylonian exile of the 6th Century BCE.

Um, if a Harry Potter novel was thousands of years old, would you consider that thousands of years of evidence for Harry Potter?

(September 15, 2023 at 4:04 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 4:01 am)Data Wrote: You shouldn't pay so much attention to scholars and atheists. A prophecy of Jesus . . . 

Isaiah 9:6: For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Didn't Isaiah also prophesy that Mary would name her child 'Immanuel'? Seems this whole prophecy thing is rather hit or myth.

Boru

And when was the government on the shoulders of Jesus? And isn't Isaiah the reason he's sometimes called 'Prince of Peace'. I've never heard him called 'Everlasting Father'.

(September 15, 2023 at 10:21 am)LinuxGal Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 10:19 am)Data Wrote: No man has seen God's face and lived.

On the contrary, it is written (Exodus 33:11): And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend...

I like discussions with unbelievers. I rarely have these sorts of discussions with believers. You know why? Lots of reasons, actually. I was an unbeliever nearly half of my life. All of my family and friends are unbelievers. They're more open and honest - real in a sense - than believers. More entertaining and interesting than believers as well, from my perspective. Believers already have or should have all of the information to make an informed decision. But most of all I like talking with unbelievers because they teach me. They teach me a lot about themselves, myself, people in general and specifically the subject I'm interested in as a hobby more than anything - the Bible. They do that in two ways, they encourage me to appease my sizable ego and disagreeable skeptic nature resulting in my having to do research I may be too fucking stupid and lazy to do without that encouragement. But the problem is, both with believers and unbelievers it's hard to get them to do that if they don't think for themselves. I can research and puke up any indoctrination and propaganda with an atheistic agenda just as easily as they can. So, I'm trying, with the usual lack of success, to get you and, let's say, @Bucky Ball to think for yourself. 

Having made that astounding announcement, let's look at our arguments. 

You contend that Moses has literally seen God face to face as the Bible plainly states and certainly seems to imply. 

I contend that no one has literally seen God's face. Period. You can't take the Bible at face value by cherry picking verses hyperliterally. 

You seem to be able to be fairly adept at Bible thumping, so let's see if you can kick it up a notch and support my argument. I know! I know! You don't want to do that. It would be silly! And you're not silly. But can you think for yourself? 

Tell me what you find on the following:

1. Can the physical universe, the heavens, contain God? 
2. Does the Bible say no one has seen God?
3 Does God literally have a physical face?
4. What does the name Michael mean? 
5. Why did God send the three angels who visited lot? 
6. What does Jesus being the word of God mean? 

All of that is easy. Won't take no time. However . . . the tricky part is the next one. I'll help you. 

7. Is there, anywhere in the Bible, where an angel, that is literally a spirit creature serving as a messenger, being addressed as or referred to as "a man," "an angel," "God or Lord," and "Jehovah" by the recipient of that message? In other words a person calling the same spirit being an angel a man, God and Jehovah. 

Hint: See Genesis 18:1-3 Jehovah God is mistaken for one of the three men. Was God a man or an angel in the form of a man who represented God?

Numbers 12:8 - An appearance of God represents God to Moses.

Genesis 32:30 - Hosea 12:2-4 points out that it was an angel who represented God that grappled with Jacob.

Judges 13:2-22 - Note that the angel of Jehovah God is called Jehovah God.

Judges 6:11-23

(September 15, 2023 at 10:44 am)Ravenshire Wrote: @Data,

Are you going to answer the question?

(September 15, 2023 at 12:26 am)Ravenshire Wrote: In a fight, who would win? Medusa, or an angel?

Sure. Uh . . . I, as Kratos, have personally ripped the head off Medusa many, many times. On the other hand Jacob beat an angel in a wrestling match, so I think it would be a close call. Except for the fact that Medusa and Kratos are the stuff of myth and video games while angels . . . but angels? Well, now angels are real!