(December 5, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I take it you valued these virtues prior to your experience.

(December 5, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: In which case, what did your experience add to your understanding?

(December 5, 2023 at 10:17 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 9:45 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I have been that father you romanticize. No gods required.

"been" ....  ??

What happened??

(December 5, 2023 at 10:31 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 10:06 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: Love.
patient.
kind.
forgiving.
understanding.
gentle.
reality.
think of a warm loving home.

Sounds like a Labrador puppy.

(December 5, 2023 at 10:57 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 10:17 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: "been" ....  ??

What happened??

My son is no longer a boy. He's grown into a fine young man.

(December 5, 2023 at 6:58 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: How do you know it's from 'higher up' can you prove a god?  See how important proving a god is now?

I don't seem to have the mental dilemma you seem to have, let's look at it another way perhaps. What is morality?

I dont say i can prove god exists.  I believe god exists.  the reason i believe is due to personal religious experience ... one experience for example ...

I had been living in an unpleasant place for a long time - during this time i guess i would say i picked up something i would describe as a pretty dark spirit.  some people have used a term "negative entity attachment".

i knew it was there on me but was in the shadows sort of thing.  one night (in a dream??) it uncovered itself to me more fully - it told me it was going to consume me and act in my life through me.  some call it possession - its more serious than the word implies though ??  the entity was strong and i really had no defence (im understating this here).  in the last moments before it completely took over - in a last ditch effort i screamed out to jesus right before the end.  Jesus had never shown up, or acted in a convincing way before as i saw it ... so why would he now.  To me, he existed theoretically i guess.  on paper, i believed in him but i didn't know much more than that.

To my highest astonishment - he showed up.

I couldn't believe he showed up, nor could i believe the kindness or the love.  I understood in a tangible way goodness and truth.  He was completely good, completely kind, he loves people and i felt that - he was calm and without a flicker of anger.  not even for the demon.  

The demon thing was gone.  

(December 5, 2023 at 8:42 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Abraham should have said, 'No.'

(December 5, 2023 at 10:59 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 10:57 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: My son is no longer a boy. He's grown into a fine young man.

https://i.imgur.com/4NgWGHe.jpg

San diego????

(December 5, 2023 at 10:55 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I take it you valued these virtues prior to your experience.

ummmmm???  I want to say yes - but i dont know now actually.
I think where i was, i dont know if i valued much of anything ???
I'll say yes - i valued those things before my experience.
What i think the real question is, is could this experience be made up by my mind??  a delusion ??  
the answer is yes.  I dont believe that - but it's possible.

(December 5, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: In which case, what did your experience add to your understanding?

it gave me hope.  

i saw jesus and that changed everything for me.  

it sounds like a simple question to answer, but its not - it's really difficult to answer haha

(December 5, 2023 at 10:59 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 6:58 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: How do you know it's from 'higher up' can you prove a god?  See how important proving a god is now?

I don't seem to have the mental dilemma you seem to have, let's look at it another way perhaps. What is morality?

I dont say i can prove god exists.  I believe god exists.  the reason i believe is due to personal religious experience ... one experience for example ...

I had been living in an unpleasant place for a long time - during this time i guess i would say i picked up something i would describe as a pretty dark spirit.  some people have used a term "negative entity attachment".

i knew it was there on me but was in the shadows sort of thing.  one night (in a dream??) it uncovered itself to me more fully - it told me it was going to consume me and act in my life through me.  some call it possession - its more serious than the word implies though ??  the entity was strong and i really had no defence (im understating this here).  in the last moments before it completely took over - in a last ditch effort i screamed out to jesus right before the end.  Jesus had never shown up, or acted in a convincing way before as i saw it ... so why would he now.  To me, he existed theoretically i guess.  on paper, i believed in him but i didn't know much more than that.

To my highest astonishment - he showed up.

I couldn't believe he showed up, nor could i believe the kindness or the love.  I understood in a tangible way goodness and truth.  He was completely good, completely kind, he loves people and i felt that - he was calm and without a flicker of anger.  not even for the demon.  

The demon thing was gone.  

Can I ask you a question Confused? 

Why do you believe this god loves you when it clearly tells you "The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth" - God
gen 6 6  <<<<< That is in the FRONT of the book!
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch...ersion=NIV

you believe a demon started all this torment and you "screamed out to jesus". 

How do you know your demon didn't laugh and say watch this yahweh.

read Lot
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch...ersion=NIV

and now that demon is convincing you it is your savior.

A demon can do that right? Lot

Now how do you know this demon isn't slowly building you up to the point it orders you you go and attack the the land of h4ym4n and

Samuel said to Cofused-by-christianity, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the h4ym4n for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the h4ym4n and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

1 Samuel 15
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV

Now think how fucked up it would be if your "good" god pretended to be the tormenting demon in the first place.

that would really be fucked up huh @Confused-by-christianity