If same sex marriage is legalised in the UK (seems a certainty) should Churches be forced in law to perform them? I'm interested to hear peoples genuine opinions on here because here in the UK the argument from the supporters of same sex marriage is that there is no such agenda and churches will not be affected and retain the right to refuse perfoming such ceremonies. I suspect that the agenda is most certainly to undermine the institution of marriage and is a direct attempt to start an all out war with the church in the UK. Especially as civil partnership already exists in the UK and the argument at the time from the supporters was that in no way were they wanting to have same sex marrige down the line, they simply wanted equal rights in law, which they now have. I believe this is a creeping attack on the church and not really an issue about human rights or equality. I have a sneaking suspicion that i will get the real picture on here...

You dip stick...no one is FORCING anyone to do anything schmuck. This issue is the legal recognition of a marriage between same sex couples. So that they enjoy the rights and privilege as those of non-same sex couples. You are sooo "Dark Ages" get with the programme...cos the "churches" are going to come around as there is alot of money in it.... slut.

(March 19, 2012 at 6:24 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: You dip stick...no one is FORCING anyone to do anything schmuck. This issue is the legal recognition of a marriage between same sex couples. So that they enjoy the rights and privilege as those of non-same sex couples. You are sooo "Dark Ages" get with the programme...cos the "churches" are going to come around as there is alot of money in it.... slut.

If you had read the OP you would know that same sex couples ALREADY HAVE "the rights and privilege as those of non-same sex couples. " in the UK. Civil partnerships recognise same sex couples and afford them all of the same protecction, rights etc in law as married couples.

And if you had a brain that was attuned to reading something more than you stoopid book you would realise the fine print that says they do not

(March 19, 2012 at 6:29 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: And if you had a brain that was attuned to reading something more than you stoopid book you would realise the fine print that says they do not

Are you incapable of discussion without insults? I think I'll politely decline your offer of further insults for no apparent reason, especially as you don't know a single thing about me...

(March 19, 2012 at 6:11 am)StatCrux Wrote: . I suspect that the agenda is most certainly to undermine the institution of marriage and is a direct attempt to start an all out war with the church in the UK.

How exactly does it undermine the institution of marriage??

Quote: I believe this is a creeping attack on the church and not really an issue about human rights or equality. I have a sneaking suspicion that i will get the real picture on here...

Oh dear, we've been discovered.

Time to launch the giant killer mechanoids.



Don't be deceived, they may only look like hot chicks with big fucken guns but that is just a clever ruse to lull you into a false state of complacency.

Bwaha

I think that all marriages should be performed by civil servants.
The fact that marriages sanctioned by religious insititutions are considered valid before law is against secularism.

There is no need to insult anyone here, first of all.

Second of all, marriage ceremonies as performed by the church are entirely different from the marriage unions recognized by the state, although they are usually intertwined.

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Third, I don't know wtf this "undermining marriage" shit is, but if someone could please define it I would appreciate it. Considering the number of straight couple divorces going on, I don't think any one of you knows a goddamn thing about staying with another person inside a contracted union.

I'm afraid you've been misled, the new UK proposals are to allow same sex marriage in a place of worship, Quakers and Unitarians want to have same sex marriage in their places of worship but are currently withheld from doing so from the law which prevents "full marriage" in a place of worship.

This is not proposing that a church is forced to do so. Rather the current laws on civil partnership make it illegal to have religious elements to the ceremony including, a civil partnership in a place of worship.

There is an deliberate lie being perpetrated about churches being forced to perform the same sex marriage based on the prejudice of that particular faith. What the new amendment to the Equality Act 2010 proposes is simply that churches that are happy to do so, are allowed by law to do so.
If the church is not happy to do so... they don't have to. That remains unchanged.

You see it as an attack on the church, whereas in reality, it is allowing certain less prejudiced faiths more freedom rather than restriction.

(March 19, 2012 at 6:51 am)Zen Badger Wrote: How exactly does it undermine the institution of marriage??

THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY

1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."84

I. MARRIAGE IN GOD'S PLAN

1602 Sacred Scripture begins with the creation of man and woman in the image and likeness of God and concludes with a vision of "the wedding-feast of the Lamb."85 Scripture speaks throughout of marriage and its "mystery," its institution and the meaning God has given it, its origin and its end, its various realizations throughout the history of salvation, the difficulties arising from sin and its renewal "in the Lord" in the New Covenant of Christ and the Church.86

Marriage in the order of creation

1603 "The intimate community of life and love which constitutes the married state has been established by the Creator and endowed by him with its own proper laws. . . . God himself is the author of marriage."87 The vocation to marriage is written in the very nature of man and woman as they came from the hand of the Creator. Marriage is not a purely human institution despite the many variations it may have undergone through the centuries in different cultures, social structures, and spiritual attitudes. These differences should not cause us to forget its common and permanent characteristics. Although the dignity of this institution is not transparent everywhere with the same clarity,88 some sense of the greatness of the matrimonial union exists in all cultures. "The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family life."89

1604 God who created man out of love also calls him to love the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being. For man is created in the image and likeness of God who is himself love.90 Since God created him man and woman, their mutual love becomes an image of the absolute and unfailing love with which God loves man. It is good, very good, in the Creator's eyes. And this love which God blesses is intended to be fruitful and to be realized in the common work of watching over creation: "And God blessed them, and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it.'"91

1605 Holy Scripture affirms that man and woman were created for one another: "It is not good that the man should be alone."92 The woman, "flesh of his flesh," his equal, his nearest in all things, is given to him by God as a "helpmate"; she thus represents God from whom comes our help.93 "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh."94 The Lord himself shows that this signifies an unbreakable union of their two lives by recalling what the plan of the Creator had been "in the beginning": "So they are no longer two, but one flesh."95 Catechism of the Catholic Church

Given that the above is the belief of the Church, if it were forced in law to perform same sex marriage (human rights laws invoked from Strasbourg once UK law allows same sex marriage?) this would undermine the institution of marriage and challenge the authority of the Church, I really hope people don't want to try and go down this road, it is going to generate huge conflict. Already some supporters are talking about an "underlying homophobia that needs to be challenged" its the beginning of a secular dictatorship that will make laws to restrict religious freedoms.