(May 18, 2012 at 3:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(May 18, 2012 at 3:20 pm)genkaus Wrote: So basically, your kind of people - subhuman creatures whose existence is lower that worms - those who have given up on the most noble of human endeavors, the practice of rationality. Yes, I avoid interaction with such creatures as far as possible - unless they say something I don't like in my presence.

Someone without a shred of honour should not speak of rationality.
I bet you'd just turn tail and run if they insulted your mother.

Someone without a shred of rationality should not speak of rationality.

(May 18, 2012 at 3:25 pm)Tobie Wrote:

(May 18, 2012 at 3:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Someone without a shred of honour should not speak of rationality.
I bet you'd just turn tail and run if they insulted your mother.

Someone without a shred of rationality should not speak of rationality.

Yeah, it was just you who was missing in between, Tobie.

can we please refrain from dogmatism and insults? if you want that then we could probably have this conversation again in a church of some sort. Until then, display some common courtesy and just converse rationally without having to stoop to death threats and unjustified claims?

(May 18, 2012 at 3:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Someone without a shred of honour should not speak of rationality.
I bet you'd just turn tail and run if they insulted your mother.

Someone without rationality is not even capable of speaking about honor. And that you cannot debate rationally without stooping to death threats is proof of that. As for my mother, as I said, I wouldn't run, but I wouldn't stoops to violent thuggery like you either. That is the way of an animal, not a human.

I'm telling everyone in this thread to take it down a notch. Squash it now.

If you believe in God, you naturally believe he is the greatest being such as nothing can be greater then it.

Such a being deserves to be honored to the maximum degree we know of. That is called worship.

Since that is what he deserves and is worthy of it, then I worship that being.

Worship is a higher form of honoring. Honoring honorable people is a good things. Honoring Ultimate Goodness is a good thing for us as well. It's healthy to love good people. It's healthy to love the most good. That love and honor is what worship is. Doesn't mean you have to bow or pray or prostrate to him...it's enough that you honor and love him understanding he is the highest possible existence.

Why honor and love that being to the highest way you know of? Because he deserves to be honored and loved to the highest degree possible.

Well worshiping just feels right. I know of unbelievers saying you can get the same feeling of euphoria at a concert....well then fine because concerts are fun. I'd rather have that same feeling without being crowded in with a bunch of people though.

Why should I try to dumb down an experience with mere words. When I go hiking and see nature's beauty, I likewise don't comment about it...I just sit back and enjoy the scene. This is an existentialist view.

I guess some of you would call it ignorance, well ignorance is bliss and my worshiping does not harm anyone so I see nothing wrong with it. Likewise, I don't get involved in the lives others....I'm not exactly favorable to the Christian Right on that issue it would seem.

MysticKnight Wrote:Why honor and love that being to the highest way you know of? Because he deserves to be honored and loved to the highest degree possible.

How do you know this? God might be sadistic, and his idea of a good time could be giving people cancer.

(May 19, 2012 at 12:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: If you believe in God, you naturally believe he is the greatest being such as nothing can be greater then it.

Such a being deserves to be honored to the maximum degree we know of. That is called worship.

Since that is what he deserves and is worthy of it, then I worship that being.

Worship is a higher form of honoring. Honoring honorable people is a good things. Honoring Ultimate Goodness is a good thing for us as well. It's healthy to love good people. It's healthy to love the most good. That love and honor is what worship is. Doesn't mean you have to bow or pray or prostrate to him...it's enough that you honor and love him understanding he is the highest possible existence.

Why honor and love that being to the highest way you know of? Because he deserves to be honored and loved to the highest degree possible.

My problem with this argument is the very vague terms such as "greatest" being used to describe god without specifying why he is greatest. For example, even Christians might agree that Satan is the second greatest being in the world when it comes to power or foresight.

Secondly, the ultimate goodness argument doesn't really cut it for me because all conceptualizations of god, while claiming ultimate goodness give a different meaning to that term. So, even if god exists, he may be ultimate good by one person's standard and ultimate evil by another. Then obviously, that another person would not and should not be expected to worship him.

For example, back in my theist days, I conceived of god as some sort of mix between deism and pantheism and borrowed from the Hindu myth that universe goes through cycles creation and destruction. I conceived of god as a scientist doing iterations of the universe to create the perfect one. Now, that is a god I could have respected and probably worshiped - though in my conceptualization, worship would be as meaningless as unwanted. However, there are other conceptualizations, like the Abrahamic god, that I simply cannot conceive as being good, let alone the ultimate good. And therefore, worship, respect or honor in that case would be unwarranted.

(May 18, 2012 at 4:15 pm)genkaus Wrote: That is the way of an animal, not a human.

Humans are animals. Just saying