(August 15, 2009 at 6:09 am)Saerules Wrote: Answers From Philosophy: our very existence, the universal stability of 1=1, the establishment of justice and morality (unique by viewpoint), to name a few.

Our existence is derived from philosophy? News to me ... I rather thought it was a case of, "I'm alive, now what can I eat?". That 1 = 1 is a mathematical assumption ... again not philosophy (and certainly not derived from philosophy). Justice and morality are relative ... not derived from philosophy.

I repeat that philosophy (modern day philosophy) answers no questions that I can discern. I will change my view on that when (and only when) something is concluded in the basis of philosophical evidence and philosophical evidence alone.

Kyu

(August 15, 2009 at 1:27 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: EvF,

Well, it depends on your epistemic approach to lava. Ontologically it exists but it is only impure actuality, so if you infinitly regress through time, there was a time when lava did not exist and had to manifest from the lava god(actus purus lavus). It is absurd to believe that lava didn't come from actus purus lavus so your atheistic worldview fails and necessitates a theistic worldview which makes the argument valid.

1) Lava is impure actuality
2) Impure actuality has to come from pure actuality
3) Actus purus lavus is necessary to explain lava
4) Therefor the lava god needs a few virgins so he won't send his minions to burn down your village!

I hope that helped,
Rhizo

Man you're good.

Seriously.

(August 16, 2009 at 1:40 am)Dotard Wrote: Man you're good.

Seriously.

He draws on his ex theism. You're obviously ready for harvesting

Fr0d0,

I gotta admit that I pinched much of that from JP's argument. I DID hold a theistic worldview for a very long time, and while I have no online debates to prove it, I argued wholeheartedly to convince people they should follow Jesus.

Usually they were in the broad category of "don't know, don't care" a group I still don't understand. It is one thing to understand religion and THEN conclude that it is false. It is quite another to know nothing, have someone tell you that hell awaits and feel no reason to at least look into it.

Many people are the close-minded "skeptic" type that shun new knoledge from an apathetic stance. Like they defend their lack of understanding about organic produce and GMO foods by saying that farmers are probably lying about their crops anyway without ever looking into what those terms mean and how they can affect your health.

Now I am pretty sure there isn't a god and don't really know what to say to my theistic friends when they post weak arguments for god on Facebook. I tell them about the better arguments that I have heard and then explain that I am still going to be an atheist. In one of those posts to a friend of mine, one of HER friends shot a reply after my post saying this, "Huh? why would anyone one want to study books to prove the existence of someone who they know...that's just weird. PROVE WHAT YOU KNOW BY WHAT YOU DO (faith in action)! It's cool that love, grace and forgiveness don't need to be explained to work. They just need to be accepted. LIVE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. JOY! love you Jessica!" I didn't respond to her but I wanted to say, "Um, bible much?"

Not all arguments on the web live up to the roiling battles we have here.

Rhizo

PS Thanks Dotard

Sounds good Rhizo. I greatly respect your opinions.

I almost envy those who were raised by atheist parents. I wouldn't have had to go through all those years of guilt of living "gray" in a "black and white world".

I would have to say that those years slowed my intellect down considerably. Those who were raised with the ability to think for themselves from the beginning would probably be more intellectually developed than someone who spent years conforming and blindly accetpting a god.

I know what I believe now, and am comfortable with it. However, I need to learn how to express it.

(August 15, 2009 at 6:31 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:

(August 15, 2009 at 6:09 am)Saerules Wrote: Answers From Philosophy: our very existence, the universal stability of 1=1, the establishment of justice and morality (unique by viewpoint), to name a few.

Our existence is derived from philosophy? News to me ... I rather thought it was a case of, "I'm alive, now what can I eat?". That 1 = 1 is a mathematical assumption ... again not philosophy (and certainly not derived from philosophy). Justice and morality are relative ... not derived from philosophy.

I repeat that philosophy (modern day philosophy) answers no questions that I can discern. I will change my view on that when (and only when) something is concluded in the basis of philosophical evidence and philosophical evidence alone.

Kyu

I apologize if any of this offends you Kyu... but:

Apparently... you have no idea what philosophy means.

[hide]philosophy |fəˈläsəfē|
noun ( pl. -phies)
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, esp. when considered as an academic discipline. See also natural philosophy .
• a set of views and theories of a particular philosopher concerning such study or an aspect of it : a clash of rival socialist philosophies.
• the study of the theoretical basis of a particular branch of knowledge or experience : the philosophy of science.
• a theory or attitude held by a person or organization that acts as a guiding principle for behavior : don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed, that's my philosophy.[hide]

You can tell me that one = one is math... but can math tell you why it must be absolutely true always? It cannot. You can prove that one + one = 2... but you can do nothing to tell why it is so. You can show how... but the why is beyond your comprehension. This simple equation of 1=1 is the original root of all logic... and logic is the root of math and philosophy and science and rationality itself.

On the subject of justice and morality... you've never read Plato's Republic... have you? As you clearly haven't: i recommend the read. That should prove a great deal of things to you based solely on philosophy.

Philosophy is one of the most important of sciences... while other sciences will tell you the way things are... only in Philosophy will you understand 'why' things are the way they are. Open your mind Kyu... and you will learn that you have much more to learn...

i sometimes pretend to be of religeon because of how others may react to it, when im around my mom i sometimes act catholic and it bothers her, the majority of my friends know im joking by it, but i am athiest

Is your mom Catholic, or just a neo-nazi?

(September 9, 2009 at 2:26 am)Saerules Wrote: Is your mom Catholic, or just a neo-nazi?

she is an athiest, and although she wont admit it is afraid of church