(August 21, 2012 at 2:58 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(August 21, 2012 at 2:55 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I wonder who these "local people" are(and how they came to know that there were pages of the Koran in the waste bag). Well, I believe this whole thing is staged. I don't know who staged it, but someone did.

Does seem a bit fishy when you put it that way.

Don't worry. I'm fairly certain that we will hear a lot more from Pakistan in the future, to the point it will receive a surprise visit from Uncle Sam, perhaps.

(August 20, 2012 at 10:44 pm)padraic Wrote: What IS the Muslim position on the mentally impaired?

The Muslim position is that, ultimately, no one can tell for sure who is going to heaven or hell except that it is in the knowledge of Allah. That's why, whether or not a person is mentally impaired, we do not know if he is going to heaven. We generally believe that those who do not have control of their behavior and then commit evil actions or cause harm to others (again, due to their mental conditions which they cannot control), may be forgiven. They may be forgiven especially if they never had the intention of doing a sinful action. But, again, we don't know when or who Allah wishes to forgive, and the Quran does not say that they will be automatically sent to heaven. So, this is an open question and we do not know the answer to this.

PS: I didn't know that you meant to say "mentally impaired" when you said "feeble-minded" in your previous post. I thought you meant something like people who were just ignorant, shallow, stupid, and stuff like that (i.e. feeble-minded). But, now that you said "mentally impaired," I understand the question and I think it's a good one, too.

(August 21, 2012 at 4:22 pm)Rayaan Wrote:

(August 20, 2012 at 10:44 pm)padraic Wrote: What IS the Muslim position on the mentally impaired?

The Muslim position is that, ultimately, no one can tell for sure who is going to heaven or hell except that it is in the knowledge of Allah. That's why, whether or not a person is mentally impaired, we do not know if he is going to heaven. We generally believe that those who do not have control of their behavior and then commit evil actions or cause harm to others (again, due to their mental conditions which they cannot control), may be forgiven. They may be forgiven especially if they never had the intention of doing a sinful action. But, again, we don't know when or who Allah wishes to forgive, and the Quran does not say that they will be automatically sent to heaven. So, this is an open question and we do not know the answer to this.

PS: I didn't know that you meant to say "mentally impaired" when you said "feeble-minded" in your previous post. I thought you meant something like people who were just ignorant, shallow, stupid, and stuff like that (i.e. feeble-minded). But, now that you said "mentally impaired," I understand the question and I think it's a good one, too.

As far as I'm concerned, the mentally disabled are destined for heaven no matter what. Or at least this is what I've heard from the many imams who have spoken about this in friday sermons.

The many faces of Islam.
(the "islamic position" isn't much different than the "christian position" in this regard)

(August 21, 2012 at 4:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the mentally disabled are destined for heaven no matter what. Or at least this is what I've heard from the many imams who have spoken about this in friday sermons.

Yeah, that's what I've heard also.

(August 21, 2012 at 4:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (the "islamic position" isn't much different than the "christian position" in this regard)

Not surprised, eh?

Nah, not at all. Ask two Christians/Muslims/Jews what the official party line is on any given thing and you're likely to get three opinions.

(August 21, 2012 at 4:37 pm)Rayaan Wrote:

(August 21, 2012 at 4:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the mentally disabled are destined for heaven no matter what. Or at least this is what I've heard from the many imams who have spoken about this in friday sermons.

Yeah, that's what I've heard also.

(August 21, 2012 at 4:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (the "islamic position" isn't much different than the "christian position" in this regard)

Not surprised, eh?

These discussions are coming up on TV also lately. I believe the ruling party is trying to bring American politics into Turkey, regarding abortion. It didn't manage to take a foothold though.

(August 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(August 21, 2012 at 2:58 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Does seem a bit fishy when you put it that way.

Don't worry. I'm fairly certain that we will hear a lot more from Pakistan in the future, to the point it will receive a surprise visit from Uncle Sam, perhaps.

Are you saying that our repeated air strikes on Pakistani territory do not count?

@Rayaan.


I used the term' feeble minded' to mean 'mentally impaired' ,as I thought it more likely to be the word used in the Qur'an.

In my oblique way, I was trying to find out if Islam considers such people responsible for their actions. If not,how could a mentally impaired person be condemned for insulting Islam?

It has been claimed that the young woman in question has Downes Syndrome. That suggests mental impairment, although not all Downes Syndrome people are mentally impaired. I hope sanity prevails and the poor girl is released, "Bismi-illahri r-rahami-rahim"

(August 21, 2012 at 7:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Don't worry. I'm fairly certain that we will hear a lot more from Pakistan in the future, to the point it will receive a surprise visit from Uncle Sam, perhaps.

Are you saying that our repeated air strikes on Pakistani territory do not count?

Air strikes, mair strikes.
An invasion force that directly targets the Pakistani nation could come in effect in the future.
But perhaps not.
Who can really know?