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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Jeffonthenet Wrote:It could also be that since life is entirely a gift, no one has the right to complain to God about suffering as they should rather thank Him for creating them and giving them life and breath.
If god existed and a person's life consisted of so much suffering that they wished they had never been born, they would have every right to tell god to stick his 'gift' where the sun doesn't shine.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Welcome to my mind on an 'average' day.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 6:17 pm
(August 29, 2012 at 4:18 pm)Categories+Sheaves Wrote: (August 29, 2012 at 9:10 am)greneknight Wrote: Never heard of those people, if they are real people in the first place. 
I can't get no
charitable interpretation!
But srsly. Faith is irrational to you, yet you identify yourself as religious so you must have faith. What constitutes this faith?
You need not do it here, but I'm curious.
I suppose it's cultural and familial. That's about it. If it hadn't been for the fact that I was born in an English family in England, I probably wouldn't have been in the Church of England. Just a little south and I would probably have been RC. Further down south and I should be Muslim. Religion depends on the luck of the birth.
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm
Religion depends on the misfortune of the birth.
FTFY.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm
(August 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Religion depends on the misfortune of the birth. Thankfully for us, truth doesn't.
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 8:07 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2012 at 8:08 pm by Cyberman.)
No indeed. Truth comes though hard work, by learning about reality and what makes it tick. Pushing the Universe until something breaks.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Someone debate me
August 29, 2012 at 8:09 pm
(August 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm)Undeceived Wrote: (August 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Religion depends on the misfortune of the birth. Thankfully for us, truth doesn't.
You must be a deluded Christian if you think religion is truth. Religion is culture and culture is never concerned about truth. I've been to Rome and there are lot of carvings of Remus and Romulus raised by wolves. Everyone knows there's no truth in that but it's perpetuated as myth and culture. The same with religion. And I'm an altar boy in case you think I'm an atheist.
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RE: Someone debate me
August 30, 2012 at 3:29 am
Are you an altar-boy because you love doing the Lord's work or do you just like getting diddled?
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RE: Someone debate me
August 30, 2012 at 6:12 am
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: If you are saying that the existence of God is incompatible with suffering, it is not me making the claim I must defend, it is you.
No, you are the one saying that existence of a benevolent god is compatible with suffering, so you are the one making the claim which you must defend.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: How could you possibly know such a thing with any degree of certainty?
I see suffering and I see no need for it. That's how.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: It is impossible that God exists? How do you know? Could you share your reasoning with me?
Your specific god - yes. Because he is logically impossible.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: The best response to the problem of evil is probably free will, so if you cannot talk about that, you are completely ignoring the strongest rebuttals to your position.
No, I'm simply ignoring the problem of free-will circa your god's omniscience.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Not true. I should know better than anyone what I am defending. I am maintaining a negative case against people who claim to know that God cannot exist because of suffering.
You abandoned your negative position the moment you were given examples of unnecessary suffering and started to make positive - though hypothetical - case for how it might be necessary.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I could respond a few ways. It could be, as Augustine supposed, that no one is innocent. It could also be that since life is entirely a gift, no one has the right to complain to God about suffering as they should rather thank Him for creating them and giving them life and breath.
1. Those incapable of understanding their actions and their consequences are innocent.
2. Whether or not a "gift" is to be thankfully received or not would depend upon the gift itself. Something that would bring only pain and suffering cannot be conceivably called a "gift".
3. The so called "gift" of life cannot be called a gift because a gift always requires a recipient which doesn't exist in this case when it is given.
(August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I've quoted everything you said and responded. Perhaps you are just frustrated that reason is not on your side.
No you haven't. From this post - http://atheistforums.org/thread-13854-po...#pid327594 - you responded only to one out of my five arguments. If you are going to lie, atleast try to be a little smart about it.
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RE: Someone debate me
August 30, 2012 at 6:27 am
(August 30, 2012 at 3:29 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Are you an altar-boy because you love doing the Lord's work or do you just like getting diddled?
Nobody likes to be tricked or deceived but the church doesn't do that to anyone. I can't remember how I became an altar boy. I was 5 so it must have been my parents.
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