I'll consider them when it can be demonstrated that there is such a thing as the supernatural.

(February 17, 2013 at 2:06 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I'll consider them when it can be demonstrated that there is such a thing as the supernatural.

That has to be the most absurd statement ever made. Well done.

A guy who dedicates his life to fictional characters thinks I'm absurd. That's special.

Just adding my own two cents. The who created the Creator question is just a canard because even if God was created what difference does it make? If true we would still owe the existence of the universe and humans to God. Theism is a belief regarding the existence of the universe and humans, it isn't a claim to know how God came about or what God is composed of. Various religions claim to have some knowledge of the character of God but that's another story.

The only time I hear this line of questioning come up is when theists claim that since everything has to come from something, god must exist to have created the universe. However, by their own logic, that means god himself must have his own creator.... and that creator has its own creator and there has to be a creator for hat creator and so on. If God doesn't need a creator, the line of logic that the theist was on just disolves.

(February 17, 2013 at 3:59 pm)TaraJo Wrote: The only time I hear this line of questioning come up is when theists claim that since everything has to come from something, god must exist to have created the universe. However, by their own logic, that means god himself must have his own creator.... and that creator has its own creator and there has to be a creator for hat creator and so on. If God doesn't need a creator, the line of logic that the theist was on just disolves.

It is a philosophical conundrum regardless of whether you're a theist or an atheist. Are we the result of an endless recession of events that ultimately led to our existence? Did the universe or something always exist and was never created? Or did the universe come into existence uncaused out of nothing? The problem with the first explanation is we'd have to cross an infinity of events to reach the events we're now at...rather problematic. I've been told on this board atheists no longer argue the notion the universe popped into existence uncaused so that leaves the idea that something always existed.

(February 17, 2013 at 4:13 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(February 17, 2013 at 3:59 pm)TaraJo Wrote: The only time I hear this line of questioning come up is when theists claim that since everything has to come from something, god must exist to have created the universe. However, by their own logic, that means god himself must have his own creator.... and that creator has its own creator and there has to be a creator for hat creator and so on. If God doesn't need a creator, the line of logic that the theist was on just disolves.

It is a philosophical conundrum regardless of whether you're a theist or an atheist.

Philosophical conundrums don't particularly disturb me, as I don't tend to go around claiming to have resolved them without any actual evidence of having done so.

Is "infinity" an example of a claim without evidence then?

(February 17, 2013 at 2:08 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 17, 2013 at 2:06 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I'll consider them when it can be demonstrated that there is such a thing as the supernatural.

That has to be the most absurd statement ever made. Well done.

Then you have evidence to disprove it?

Good-o, lets see it then.

(February 18, 2013 at 6:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Is "infinity" an example of a claim without evidence then?

I think that it's reasonable to draw a distinction between something that exists as a concept, and something that exists in reality.

But, if you insist on continuing along this path, there are several proofs of infinite prime integers, which necessarily depends on integers being infinite.

With respect to infinities in reality, beats the hell out of me.