(March 17, 2013 at 6:03 am)Dawud Wrote: All this despite Muslims Jews, Christians and more living side by side in peace for century upon century upon century upon century upon century upon century....

Yeah that reminds me of something once said by this cockhead:

• “Syria’s a place that has Muslims and Christians living together for 1,400 years. So it’s a lot more peaceful, honestly, than a lot of other places because Christians were here first.
  
  “In fact, you know Saul of Tarsus – Saul was a Syrian. St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, had his conversion experience and so Christians have been here the longest, and they get along with the Muslims and the Muslims get along with them. There’s a lot less tension than in other places.
  
  “It’s a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is to not allow any extremism of any kind.”
  Rick Warren while in Syria (Audio is partway down in link.)

Quote:You wish this wasn't a fact but you side with bigots who will never accept the fact that Islam has a MASSIVE history of pluralism as any major respected historian will tell us. It's just Internet loonies or bigots who've not found out and care little for the facts that perpetuate this racist lie that flies in the face of sincere and rigorous respect for finding out true history.

To quote from the link I provided you with above:

• True, the Assads simply crush any extremism that threatens their tyrannical rule. But Syria plays ball with the terrorists by allowing them to use Syria – and neighboring Lebanon – as staging grounds under the proviso they do not subvert the Assad regime. That’s why Syria serves as the headquarters for more terrorist organizations than any other country in the world – yet experiences little of its own.

---

(March 17, 2013 at 6:57 am)The Germans are coming Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 6:03 am)Dawud Wrote: All this despite Muslims Jews, Christians and more living side by side in peace for century upon century upon century upon century upon century upon century....

Where?

Can you give examples or is this some fantasy of yours?

Yep he sure can - in Syria, lol.

As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) — as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) — say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.


Pew forum - say that they are wrong and you are a fool

This co-existence existed all over including Andalusia in Spain to give a beautiful example - FROM HISTORY -

The jizya was a military waiver paid by only men fit for the army if they wished to not fight in the army - Muslims have even paid jizya

Muslims were also "taxed" you nutter - it's called Zakat and it can work out as even more than jizya.

Taxation is not oppression you fool! Infact Non-Muslims could live tax free in a Muslim community if they fought to defend the pluralist society.

But you don't want to see if that's true - so just keep on bablin

MILLIONS of Muslims are pro democracy

So you are wrong about that - admit that and I will entertain a conversation with you

(March 17, 2013 at 8:12 am)Dawud Wrote: MILLIONS of Muslims are pro democracy

Really a couple of million out of 1.5 billion? WOW.

(March 17, 2013 at 8:12 am)Dawud Wrote: As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) — as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) — say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.

Oh lol. That "democracy" can work what?

I ponted out to you thhat officialy only 4 countries are non democracies, and that most of the countries which officialy called themselves democracies arent.

A Pakistani will say that democracy works and that he is pro - democracy, even although his country brutaly discriminates minorities and even ciminalises the through the states insitutions.

And!:

(March 17, 2013 at 8:12 am)the germans are coming wrote these statistics down earlier and you ignored them because you are a twat Wrote: People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://people-press.org/report/206/a-yea...r-iraq-war

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/0...fanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,...51,00.html

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
http://terrorism.about.com/b/2006/09/11/...-laden.htm

Pew Research: 59% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
41% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2007
56% of Jordanians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/15/iran-te...erman.html

Pew Global: 51% of Palestinians support Osama bin Laden
54% of Muslim Nigerians Support Osama bin Laden
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/02/10/blinded-by-hate/
http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/268.pdf

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/pakis...te-deaths/

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...a-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1...in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01/str...-in-canada
http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/much-good...in-canada/

World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/p...09_rpt.pdf

World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/p...09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-...hezbollah/

Turkish Ministry of Education: 1 in 4 Turks Support Honor Killings
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/03/turkey-war-on-women/
http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_ge...&bolum=100

Civitas: 1 in 3 Muslims in the UK strongly agree that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY...wnload.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/pete...ur-nation/

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/43207

95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011...tful-name/

A survey of Muslim women in Paris suburbs found that three-quarters of them wear their masks out of fear - including fear of violence.
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230

Two-thirds of young British Muslims agree that 'honor' violence is acceptable.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...veals.html

Muslims have highest claimed disability rates in the UK (24% of men, 21% of women)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...a-law.html

2011: 16% of UK prisoners in 2010 are Muslim (Muslims comprise about 3% of the total population)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress...500798601A

Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/daniel-gree...failure/2/

Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY...wnload.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: Up to 52% of British Muslims believe a Muslim man is entitled to up to four wives
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawO...ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/1...2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/200...0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/...h-islamist

Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say 'Muslim' rather than 'Briton')
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf

Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/...es/246.pdf

Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/a...rheit.html

Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/re.../28257.htm

Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/s...al-values/

Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim...df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/m...extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/m...extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/s...gn-policy/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for political ends acceptable
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/200...0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/...h-islamist

Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/10...xpression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/...lieve.html

Most of these subjects and the opinions muslims have of them show very very very clearly: Most Muslims eighter dont understand what democracy and pluralism is.
Or lie when asked about what they think of democracy.

Or you are lieing.

Quote:Pew forum - say that they are wrong and you are a fool

YOU FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I posted several statistics and surveis by PEW, you ignored these that I posted and now you think that I may think that they are liers!

If you want to participate in debates, you should finaly start reading you opponents arguments!

Quote:This co-existence existed all over including Andalusia in Spain to give a beautiful example - FROM HISTORY -

Are you fucking serious!?

Non muslims in early medieval andalusia didnt have any legal representation, were treated unequaly and had to pay the "non believer" tax.

Adding to that - the various emirates that ruled andalusia were dictators by modern standerds.

Let me explain pluralism to your weak mind:

Pluralism is not just various different peoples with various different beliefs and opinions living together in a sociaty.

Pluralism is various different peoples with various different beliefs and opinions living together in a sociaty in which all of them have equal rights!

Do you understand that derp?

Quote:The jizya was a military waiver paid by only men fit for the army if they wished to not fight in the army - Muslims have even paid jizya

?!?! does this example of a medieval army say anything about islam today?
plus, this idiotic example doesnt change a single one of the facts I listed above!

Quote:Muslims were also "taxed" you nutter - it's called Zakat and it can work out as even more than jizya.

(March 17, 2013 at 8:12 am)Wikipedia says Wrote: Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎ ǧizyah IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[1] (but with specific exemptions).

You moron! I never doubted the fact that muslims were taxed aswel!!!

The fact that a "special tax" for non muslims existed is enought to show how people were treated unequaly.
This seems to be the only point you adress, whilest being completly unable to understand how dis concepts seeds inequality into a sociaty.
plus, you couldnt give any arguments against the other totalitarian aspects listed - probably for one single reason - because you cant!

And who are you calling a "nutter"? You are the one who ignores facts and the sources I post because they dont fit into your worldview!

Quote:Taxation is not oppression you fool! Infact Non-Muslims could live tax free in a Muslim community if they fought to defend the pluralist society.

YOU UTTER AND COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said that taxation was oppression you fool!!!! YOU MORON!!!!
What I listed was the fact that a special group was taxed simply because they were different - which is oppressive and discriminatory!!!

Quote:But you don't want to see if that's true - so just keep on bablin

YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You dont even seem to understand what oppressive means, neighter do you even seem to understand the concepts of pluralism!
You defend discriminatory islamic practices as if they werent bad at all and try to explain with your idiotic wording how they are the most normal thing on the planet! All whilest completly ignoring everything I post and only replying to where you see a chance to reply because you dont have anything to counter at other points!

Quote:MILLIONS of Muslims are pro democracy

Yeah! The kind of democracy where only muslims can vote! Or in which people are stoned! Or women cant vote! Or 12 year old girls are married to old men!

The main issue wasnt democracy! It was human rights and pluralism - and how your religion rejects it!!!!!!

Quote:So you are wrong about that - admit that and I will entertain a conversation with you

YOu are not capable of conversation! You pick the parts to which you reply while ignoring those which dont fit into your worldview!

And what makes you think that I have to deserve the privilege of talking to you! You arent even worth talking! You dont reply all arguments! You ignore things which refute you! You put words into peoples mouth! You are dishonest! And as we can see through your last statement - an arrogant person who thinks of himself as superior!

It is absolutly no privilege ceonversing with you! It simply sharpens my skills in finding the statistics again on which I base my views of the negative influence your savage religion is having on this civilised continent!

(March 16, 2013 at 2:46 pm)apophenia Wrote:

(March 16, 2013 at 2:38 pm)EGross Wrote: The fate of women in Islamic controlled countries...

That's all fine and dandy, except this discussion isn't about what happens in other countries, but what we should do about Muslim citizens and Muslim immigrants in our countries.


So essentially, your whole post — its entire content — was devoted to fanning the flames of racism.

Very admirable.

Do you really think that only happens in Islamic countries? I have seen this in my trips to Austria, England and the USA. The idea that putting a woman in a sack is exalting Islam is not just in Islamic countries, but as I noted in the connecting post, they do not accept pluralism, and enforce their demands on society.

And while it is a national requirement in Islamic countries, it is a religious requirement in the non-Islamic ones. They demand changes in laws to support their needs. In my country, "honor killings" are not uncommon. In the USA, a muslim woman demanded that the law changes so she can get a driver's license with just here eyes showing.

In other words, there is a demand for the patalogical demands of a bizarre faith, where a fatwa can mean the death of an individual who disagrees with them, to become socially accepted.

Finally, this is an athiest site - and thus all religions, by definition are for the slaves and slavers. So my use of this photo is to show the slaves, while ther non-existant god made up by a phony "prophet" and all of their leadership, can be both slave and slaver.

---

(March 17, 2013 at 9:00 am)Aractus Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 8:12 am)Dawud Wrote: MILLIONS of Muslims are pro democracy

Really a couple of million out of 1.5 billion? WOW.

I believe that if you polled them and asked if they were pro-democracy that was devoid of any of their religious requirements (as voiced recently in Egypt where the Muslim brotherhood is aghast that the international community would demand that husbands could not beat their wives) that you would find that number much less. They would prefer a theocratic state, that supported Islam and a democratic process where women are worth 50% of a male vote.

(March 17, 2013 at 9:43 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: Let me explain pluralism to your weak mind:

Pluralism is not just various different peoples with various different beliefs and opinions living together in a sociaty.

Pluralism is various different peoples with various different beliefs and opinions living together in a sociaty in which all of them have equal rights!

I think you're extending the definition in the direction you want it to go, but only because it serves your specific interests.

By that definition, the United States is not a pluralistic society, and the bulk of its people are anti-pluralistic, as the question of equal rights for women has been put to the vote several times and defeated each time.


However, I will say a couple things before I bow out of this discussion. Certainly, I acknowledge that I am ignorant about the world, political philosophy, and history, so I grant that I may be amiss in relevant concerns. However, to me, this argument is twofold. First, what is pluralism, and more generally, what is the nature of politics in a world which is de facto pluralistic if not de jure pluralistic. Clausewitz said that war is the conduct of politics through non-political means. If we abandon the means of political discourse, the remaining tool in our arsenal is war. This is what resulted in the death of nearly 3,000 people on September 11, 2001. One side or the other abandoned proper social and political discourse to resolve their differences and resorted to the politics of war. The question of integrating Muslims is not just an immigration question, it's a global one. What are you suggesting for the pluralism of our world society? That we deport all Muslims to another planet? Or perhaps we should simply make the middle east a plain of glass, because they threaten our worldview. I say no. I realize it's not as efficient as bombing them or deporting them, but you as a German should know intimately that the efficiency of disposing with a problem population is not in and of itself a virtue.

My second question has to be, how are you going to implement an immigration policy aimed at reducing the inflow of anti-pluralistic Muslims into your country? What are you going to use as a litmus test for whom to admit and whom to reject? "Are you a Muslim?" "Assuredly not! Insha'Allah!" Are you going to deny immigration from certain countries on the basis of the politics of the majority there? In addition to seeming to run quickly to racial profiling, many times an immigrant from those nations is immigrating to escape from that. Your attitude to that is what? Sucks to be them? Indeed, since Muslim regimes are some of the most oppressive, you may very well see a strong correlation between Muslim hegemony and immigration because of that reason. And what about those who are refugees, say in Darfur, who are fleeing not because of Muslim oppression, but because of other oppression? Do we turn our backs on the people of Darfur because they come from a predominately Muslim nation? Or do we differentiate between the countries composed "mostly of good Muslims" and "mostly of bad Muslims" ? Exactly whom are you targeting here, Germans, and how do we identify them?

Exactly how is this "send them back to where they came from" policy going to work? Are we going to deport people for being fanatical Muslims? Simply Muslim? For speaking out in favor of Sharia law? What exactly is the list of thought crimes going to include? If they break laws, send them to jail, or worse. But I get the impression you want to attack a much larger group of people, and we don't need additional laws to punish actual law breakers, and if we do, that's a separate matter. And it raises the very real question of why we would want to punish Muslim lawbreakers differently from non-Muslim lawbreakers. And I'm gonna add another Godwin for this one, but it's hardly surprising that this comes from the citizen of a country that has made it a crime to disagree with the majority view of the history of the holocaust and speak one's mind about it. Maybe when Germany becomes truly pluralistic you might have some grounds to bitch.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation, for personal reasons. I'll leave you to your debate.

---

ETA: I want to throw this in just because it's from what I'm currently reading. Foucault in the book Discipline and Punsih makes the point that punishment over the past 500 years has transformed from punishing the act of wrong doing, to punishing the actor of the wrong doing. Punishment has ceased to be about metering out punishment because one has committed a specific act so much as it is meted out because the act identifies you as a specific type of actor. Thus the obsession with matters of intent, mental competence, and so on. We no longer seek to punish because someone has done wrong but rather punish people for being doers of wrong; we punish people for having the inclination to do wrong, as much, if not more so, than for having done wrong. The emphasis has shifted from the ethics of the act to the ethics of the actor. This is quite relevant here because, without ascribing this position to anyone, this conversation seems to trend in the direction of making being a Muslim — or simply holding political or religious beliefs or views the majority finds threatening — and simply being a person who is that "type" of actor itself a crime. And if anyone holds that view, I'd say they've abandoned pluralism.

You say the Muslims lie then you say they don't

They lie if they undermine your argument and tell the truth if they don't

Good-night

No wonder Hamas and Hezbollah are supported - look at Israel!

In violation if international law - condemned by the UN and invading and occupying a territory that is not theirs

But you would say these white skinned men are just civilising these poor barbarians.

Well it's your circle jerk bull that makes you think it's some kind of 2 sided thing or an invasion of Palestine into Israel.

Millions of Muslims undermine your argument but you throw it out of the water cos your just some sad bigoted loner.

I'm off to deal with academics who wouldn't stomach this bull for a second.

Your use of figures and pre-assumption of the significance of these figures is honestly pitiful.

I'll waste my time no-longer

---

The Muslim world isn't attacking the West with some super Organised dangerous threat -

It's tanks and bombs and ARMIES that have raped and trampled their way through the Middle East backed up by fan boy self congratulating racists like yourself who swallow the penis of "we're civilizing the barbarians" gladly in your blind faith of superiority. Though really the forces behind these atrocities couldn't give a rats ass for the people they are so 'saintly' in 'saving'

You make me sick circle jerkers - I'm gonna have to go and deal with some real atheists - who are able to trust evidence and not bigotry

I'm going to

(March 17, 2013 at 5:26 pm)Dawud Wrote: You say the Muslims lie then you say they don't

Where?

Quote:They lie if they undermine your argument and tell the truth if they don't

Where do I say that?

Quote:No wonder Hamas and Hezbollah are supported - look at Israel!

I am not suprised that you as a muslim, are aslo a antisemite.

Quote:In violation if international law - condemned by the UN and invading and occupying a territory that is not theirs

I hope you choke to death on a bunch of foreskins, just like every other antisemite.

Quote:But you would say these white skinned men are just civilising these poor barbarians.

Can you show where I or anyone else is saying that!

Quote:Well it's your circle jerk bull that makes you think it's some kind of 2 sided thing or an invasion of Palestine into Israel.

Nothing crcle jerk about it, one only has to look at palestinian propaganda and official political possitions.

Quote:Millions of Muslims undermine your argument but you throw it out of the water cos your just some sad bigoted loner.

Sow me those "millions"

Quote:I'm off to deal with academics who wouldn't stomach this bull for a second.

Which you dream up.

Quote:Your use of figures and pre-assumption of the significance of these figures is honestly pitiful.

Where?

Quote:I'll waste my time no-longer

It is our time, which is wasted by someone like you.

Someone like you who ignores facts and an opponents argument for the sake of having his delusions not disturbed.

Quote:The Muslim world isn't attacking the West with some super Organised dangerous threat -

Where am I saying that?

Quote:It's tanks and bombs and ARMIES that have raped and trampled their way through the Middle East backed up by fan boy self congratulating racists like yourself who swallow the penis of "we're civilizing the barbarians" gladly in your blind faith of superiority.

Where do I speak out support for invasions of the middle east?

Can you prove that these amies "raped and trampled" themselves through the middle east?

where to I express blind faith in my supiriority?

Quote: Though really the forces behind these atrocities couldn't give a rats ass for the people they are so 'saintly' in 'saving'

Delusions again?

Quote:You make me sick circle jerkers - I'm gonna have to go and deal with some real atheists - who are able to trust evidence and not bigotry

I have posted various statistics which you ignored.

Whilest you put words in my mouth which I never said.

You are a dishonest and delusional moron, and should you put words in my mouth again I will report this dishonesty of yours.

(March 17, 2013 at 7:04 pm)apophenia Wrote:

Oh that's ok apophenia, they ended up here in Oz.