(March 18, 2013 at 10:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(March 18, 2013 at 9:58 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Why? Saying something is "unscientific" implies that science has disproved it. There is no science anywhere not one journal not one paper no experiment nothing anywhere that you can point to anywhere that disproves the existence of miracles.

Yeah, actually, there's a mountain of it.

Prove me wrong.

Here is John Lennox, a man with I think has 3 PhD's who teaches at Oxford talking about science and miracles.

I am not sure if some sort of amalgamation of all the studies that have been done on miracles exists. But science has not proved miracles to be false, in fact there have been many recent books by scientists and medical professionals about near death experiences.
You are saying that some study of a particular miracle failed to bear the intended fruit. That does not disprove the existence of miracles. A lot of miracles revolves around who is doing them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm5JXJGFw2k

I'm asking for one observed miracle which has been stress-tessed and come out clean, in which the indisputable conclusion drawn by the scientists was that it was a bonafide act of the Christian God.

You can create a standard to hide God from yourself or can seek God on God's own terms.

The Bible teaches that God hides himself intentionally, so people won't see God.

Life is a test to see who wants to be a good person, who will seek God.

If God proved otherwise, it would cease to be a test.

So you have no examples, gotcha.

(March 18, 2013 at 11:24 pm)jstrodel Wrote:

(March 18, 2013 at 10:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yeah, actually, there's a mountain of it.

Prove me wrong.

Here is John Lennox, a man with I think has 3 PhD's who teaches at Oxford talking about science and miracles.

I am not sure if some sort of amalgamation of all the studies that have been done on miracles exists. But science has not proved miracles to be false, in fact there have been many recent books by scientists and medical professionals about near death experiences.

Yeah and he's also a very, VERY devout Christian. I'm sure HE wouldn't be biased or anything. 9_9 Just because someone is a scientist does not make them immune to gullibility, it just makes them curious about their field of study. He isn't even actually a scientist, either, he just studies the philosophy of science itself, and religion as well. He actually has no intricate knowledge of biology, astronomy, medicine, or anything, actually; he just knows the philosophical principles behind them and what their purposes are. He's dressed up as a great intellectual, and in his field, maybe he is, but to give him any validity to understanding the studies of biology themselves just because he studies what the study is overall, is like saying that because I have tasted a lot of different dishes, I automatically am an amazing cook. It's just not true. So what he says actually doesn't really bear any weight, here.

Basically, he's a glorified apologist. That he was a student of C.S. Lewis is very clear in his verbiage.

Millions of examples, none that conform to standards that would make the God who hides himself into the God who rewards clever spiritual ladder climbers.

Knowing God is like what you do when you are faced with uncertainty, it determines what you love, whether you want to come to the end of yourself or not.

(March 18, 2013 at 11:38 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The Bible teaches that God hides himself intentionally, so people won't see God.

What is God, a kindergartener playing hide and seek like a little brat?

God should not have to be sought, because left to one's own devices void of logic and reason anything can be found that automatically aligns with what the individual is seeking regardless of there being no proof of its existence.

If God is real, there should be absolutely no reason that He cannot find a way to reveal himself to everyone in such a way as to make His existence irrefutable.

You have millions of verified examples of miracles which have survived rigorous scientific examination unscathed but you can't share a single one?

That's what I'm asking for. If I want examples of confirmation bias, you have 477 other posts I can read, so making another is unnecessary.

(March 18, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Mr Infidel Wrote:

(March 18, 2013 at 11:38 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The Bible teaches that God hides himself intentionally, so people won't see God.

What is God, a kindergartener playing hide and seek like a little brat?

God should not have to be sought, because left to one's own devices void of logic and reason anything can be found that automatically aligns with what the individual is seeking regardless of there being no proof of its existence.

H'shem tests peoples hearts to see who is selfish and wants self and who wants to know God.

If H'shem revealed God's nature, then you would be able to believe in H'Shem just to receive a reward. H'shem wants people to love rather than to grapple for position.

Quote:If God is real, there should be absolutely no reason that He cannot find a way to reveal himself to everyone in such a way as to make His existence irrefutable.

God does. H'Shem has in my life and so many others.

---

(March 18, 2013 at 11:47 pm)Ryantology Wrote: You have millions of verified examples of miracles which have survived rigorous scientific examination unscathed but you can't share a single one?

That's what I'm asking for. If I want examples of confirmation bias, you have 477 other posts I can read, so making another is unnecessary.

You presuppose that science can properly handle miraculous events. What is your evidence that science is suitable for dealing with the miraculous?

My confirmation bias is this: I have seen a lot of miracles. I don't care what science says. I have seen objects physically translate. I have seen people prophesy details of my life without them knowing anything about me, telling me my name, occupation, I have seen the holy spirit visible manifest, I have seen many lives transformed by God. I have felt the unction of the Holy Ghost many times.

What about your confirmation bias: You have no experience of God and you are reasoning about something you have probably spent less than 20 hours of your life thinking about. I have spent 8 years seeking God as the main thing that I do, a major part of that the supernatural.

So yes, I have a confirmation bias, which is that I know the things I am talking about are true, from a non-scientific source.

Do you think it is possible that there is anything in life that science doesn't have the best possible approach to? You realize science is something that is substantially influenced by industrial production processes.

(March 18, 2013 at 11:51 pm)jstrodel Wrote: H'shem tests peoples hearts to see who is selfish and wants self and who wants to know God.

Appeal to emotion is not proof of a deity's existence. When relying upon emotional experiences, there is no way to verify if a deity is speaking to us or if we are merely hallucinating.