"The mind" doesn't exist in reality? You still haven't established a soul, but now we're going to push through that and babble on about animal/rational souls as though it meant something?

(March 30, 2013 at 12:38 pm)Tex Wrote: No no no, the brain computes no immaterial. The soul computes nothing material. "The brain uses numbers with the soul" is not to mean that immaterials are processed in the brain, but that the brain and the soul process simultaneously. The soul processes the immaterials and the brain the material.

You sure do exude certainty about all this. You've separated brain from soul, worked out how each functions and worked out the manner in which they work together. What has given you all this insight not found in the work of any neuroscientists? I hope god hasn't been giving you secret knowledge unavailable to the rest of us.

Do you make any distinction between what you think you have good reason to believe and your fanciful theories?

(March 30, 2013 at 12:55 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(March 30, 2013 at 12:38 pm)Tex Wrote: No no no, the brain computes no immaterial. The soul computes nothing material. "The brain uses numbers with the soul" is not to mean that immaterials are processed in the brain, but that the brain and the soul process simultaneously. The soul processes the immaterials and the brain the material.

You sure do exude certainty about all this. You've separated brain from soul, worked out how each functions and worked out the manner in which they work together. What has given you all this insight not found in the work of any neuroscientists? I hope god hasn't been giving you secret knowledge unavailable to the rest of us.

Do you make any distinction between what you think you have good reason to believe and your fanciful theories?

He has?

whateverist Wrote:What has given you all this insight not found in the work of any neuroscientists? I hope god hasn't been giving you secret knowledge unavailable to the rest of us.

Its super secret! Don't tell him I'm telling you guys! He'll get really mad if he finds out!

The insight is not found in neuroscience because neuroscience studies the brain. They only look at the brain. They do not think about what is logically impossible for the brain to do, they just find out where and how its doing it. That is the job of a nueroscientist: analyze the brain.

I hate any sort of "god of the gaps" theory, but technically this is one, although odd. Note this is not about how there is a gap in the brain that the soul fills. I do see a gap in the input-output, with our output not matching material stimuli. If we add immaterial stimuli, the system is balanced.

whateverist Wrote:Do you make any distinction between what you think you have good reason to believe and your fanciful theories?

The fanciful theories seem to be working ok. I re-do and trash stuff as necessary if it doesn't work. I was really thinking I would have to trash this whole proof because MysticKnight found a hole, but I found out later where my miscommunication was.

If we add waffles, the system is also balanced.

or strudel.
or balsa wood.
cynobacteria.
granite curb slabs.
c-clamps.
disk brakes.
dryer lint.

Should I go on?

Your assertion, not your theory, it hasn't even risen to the level of a hypothesis, -is- a hole (and to be blunt, it isn't even yours to begin with.....).

This is an interesting conversation. I seem to be confused about what you said about kids memorizing numbers. Does a brain play a part in memorizing numbers? In learning to count aside from seeing material things? In learning mathematics aside from seeing material things?

It seems to me my brain begins to hurt when I get stomped on a math problem.

Also when I use to fast, fasting made it harder for me to concentrate on mathematical equations.

It kind of seems to the brain is part of the process with numbers- soul or no soul.

Again, if a dream can exist in our minds, and not be a proof of soul, but we aren't seeing anything real in a dream, why can't it be the case of numbers?

The same is true of "logic".

OMFG! Morgan Freeman is in my soul!

(March 29, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Tex Wrote: The soul continues to process immaterial stimuli. If there's brain damage, it doesn't affect the soul. I understand why you make this argument though; Christians have a very romanticized idea of the soul. Not me. The soul doesn't function to well for me after death or brain trauma or something. The soul needs the body for stimuli. If the body becomes damaged, the soul does not function well. The only thing the soul can do is understand immaterials in animals. Humans get a small bit of difference in the soul, "universal knowledge" and "will". When there is no body, there is nothing to act, even if willed. When the body is damaged, the universal knowledge and will stay, but the ability for the soul to receive decent stimuli has dropped dramatically. This is practiced by nearly no Christians anymore. It's a concept called "soul sleep".

Really? What cavernous place have you dug that from? Seriously. Have you read what you wrote?

Sometimes I use "memory" very broadly.

MysticKnight Wrote:I seem to be confused about what you said about kids memorizing numbers. Does a brain play a part in memorizing numbers?

Memorization is completely physical. If I give some 4th graders a times tables quiz, the test itself has nothing to do with the soul (although prior to the quiz, the soul is instrumental). The kid will see the Arabic numerals on the page, and brain will then think on what does "5x6" mean, then it will relate it back to the memorization that happened earlier. To understand the meaning of "5" and "6" and "30" requires a soul.

MysticKnight Wrote:In learning to count aside from seeing material things? In learning mathematics aside from seeing material things?

Learning to count: The only animals that count without relating the numbers to material things are people. Counting, in and of itself, can use solely memory, both a rational soul and the brain, or use brain and animal soul simultaneously. A computer program can repeat a given list, and this would be the brain only. In facilitating a language (as apposed to simple communication), the rational soul is assigning noises (physical) to the numbers. The rational soul is no longer necessary when we already know the language. Finally, the language is not necessary to know that 3 is less than 7. Animals still know this. Also, animals do not think about 3 and 7 apart from physical objects, but they still know them nevertheless.

Mathematics: In learning/developing you get both brain and rational soul working. After you've already learned, its just memory. Algebra was a breeze for me, same with geometry. Pre-Cal was much more difficult, and I had no idea what the teacher was telling me. The "path" of logic wasn't clear to me so I couldn't solve the problems. Once I understood what the path was, I went to AP AB Cal and made a 96. In learning the formula and its workings, rational soul was active along with my brain. Once I figured it out, its all memory from there.

MysticKnight Wrote:It seems to me my brain begins to hurt when I get stomped on a math problem.

The brain is active. The brain is trying to figure out if the problem relates to anything you've seen before, what usually happens, etc.. If your name is Copernicus and you're looking at sheets of data on the planets, you're going to come up with different answers for "how" and the brain will be churning away and mental strain will ensue.

MysticKnight Wrote:Also when I use to fast, fasting made it harder for me to concentrate on mathematical equations.

Makes the brain's churning easier to fatigue.

MysticKnight Wrote:It kind of seems to the brain is part of the process with numbers- soul or no soul.

Part of the process? Absolutely. The only process? Metaphysically impossible.

MysticKnight Wrote:Again, if a dream can exist in our minds, and not be a proof of soul, but we aren't seeing anything real in a dream, why can't it be the case of numbers?

The same is true of "logic".

I can close my eyes and think of my mother, but my brain is pulling that from memory. I can then imagine my mother giving me a hug, but that too is a memory. I can imagine Barack Obama giving me a hug, but now I'm combining memories of being hugged and what Obama looks like on T.V. The imagination is a whole bunch of stuff from our memory banks being thrown together. If dreaming were just the soul, there wouldn't be any of that. The soul is not a warehouse for knowledge, but it is a factory that spits knowledge out right as it's done with it.

Quote:To understand the meaning of "5" and "6" and "30" requires a soul.

Let's see the proof.