How about this?

In Islam, women are not allowed a proper education, they are second or third class citizens, they are property of men and are required to be covered from head to toe.

A better system would be to allow women all the privileges men have and treat them as equals in all areas of society.

Prove me wrong.

Here is an issue I have with it. A man can marry another wife without the first wife's permission. This can be devastating for the wife and the kids naturally that care about how their mom feels. Now it's easy to make the woman walk a high ground where she must put aside her feelings and not be jealous and remain loving and respecting towards the husband, but why is she made to go through that, and not the husband? It's easier for the husband not to get married without her permission, then it is, for her to put up with another wife.

Now those laws are just laws, but if you have a cousin for example, who's husband is doing this, then it's hit close to home.

Another thing is, how come a man can divorce his wife, but the wife has to justify her reasons to a court with very limited reasons that are considered justifiable, to divorce, specially when before a woman was dependant on a man more so then a man dependant on a woman?

It seems even if the wife wanted to get divorced because of a 2nd wife, she couldn't do so based on those reasons.

I find this unfair towards women and disrespectful towards women.

I would say a better system, would be, one that requires the permission of the first wife, to get married to another. Or a system where the wife has as much reasons to divorce as does the husband.

What say you to this?

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(April 10, 2013 at 11:49 am)Baalzebutt Wrote: How about this?

In Islam, women are not allowed a proper education, they are second or third class citizens, they are property of men and are required to be covered from head to toe.

Where is the evidence of the bolded.

(April 10, 2013 at 7:46 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Muslims like other people can be good or evil

What some Muslims do is not Islam
We are discussing Islam not wrong actions done by Muslims.

That's it. I have absolutely no more patience with this intellectually vapid argument.

Seriously, why should I consider a system of living where even its most ardent followers, muslims, can't follow the fucking rules? Your system is broken and inhumane. If you want to impress non-muslims with the humanity and justice of Islam, drop the sophistry and demonstrate it.

What you fail to realize and accept is that Islam is on display everyday and the rest of humanity doesn't like it. As an example, what's the Islamic punishment for apostasy? And you wonder why there aren't lines of thousands in front of mosqes desperate to join the club. It's not a 'bad' muslim issue, it's an inhumane ideology issue. Until you and other muslims recognize this and reform, similar to what it took Christianity hundreds of years to do, your argument is dead on arrival.

(April 10, 2013 at 12:10 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 10, 2013 at 11:49 am)Baalzebutt Wrote: How about this?

In Islam, women are not allowed a proper education, they are second or third class citizens, they are property of men and are required to be covered from head to toe.

Where is the evidence of the bolded.

Mystic, I have a great deal of respect for you. Asking for evidence of something that is so widespread and well known in Islamic countries really disappoints me. To be honest, it makes me a little sad that I need to point this out.

Malala

Islam's war on womens education

(April 10, 2013 at 12:43 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote:

(April 10, 2013 at 12:10 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Where is the evidence of the bolded.

Mystic, I have a great deal of respect for you. Asking for evidence of something that is so widespread and well known in Islamic countries really disappoints me. To be honest, it makes me a little sad that I need to point this out.

Malala

Islam's war on womens education

Well, what I meant was, what is the textual basis to it? Is it so widespread though? It seems like it's only extremist who also believe in killing civilians is alright, while majority is against it.

In Iran, most students in university are women. Most graduates are women.

(April 10, 2013 at 1:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 10, 2013 at 12:43 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: Mystic, I have a great deal of respect for you. Asking for evidence of something that is so widespread and well known in Islamic countries really disappoints me. To be honest, it makes me a little sad that I need to point this out.

Malala

Islam's war on womens education

Well, what I meant was, what is the textual basis to it? Is it so widespread though? It seems like it's only extremist who also believe in killing civilians is alright, while majority is against it.

In Iran, most students in university are women. Most graduates are women.

I can't offer a textual basis. I have never read the koran and never will. I can only comment on the actions of those who profess to follow the koran.

I quess it is much like xtianity. It is the extremists we take notice of. It is wrong of me to make a blanket statement. I apologize.

I guess what I am getting at is that women are largely considered to be the property of men, whether that be fathers, husbands or otherwise. What primarily bothers me is that women are treated like property rather than people. That doesn't sit well with me.

I admit that these opinions were formed (an continue to be reinforced) by media reports on extremist activities and ideals. I know this is not necessarily representational of all of Islam but it seems that most of Islam hold these ideals to a greater or lesser degree.

No need to apologize. It's not improbable there is a textual basis in hadiths, otherwise, you would think extremist would not just make up the principle. I just wanted to know if there was evidence Islam taught that while I was unaware of any evidence.

(April 10, 2013 at 9:04 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

Yes you're right Violet...saw wounds heal very badly if at all... I am liking this

I'm just saying it could save you a lot of time and aggravation.

Ahh, were only i blessed with a micropenis. While I'm wishing for this... I'd really like a pony

(April 10, 2013 at 7:39 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Or it is just your choice to be an ASSIEST

Maybe it was her choice to be an ASSET. Is that like, a small ass?

Or maybe she's just the SASSIEST.

Don't mind me, I'm just doing "letter math."

Anyway, as to your challenge, I say the woman should be of sufficient age where she can knit her own burqa and full-body shawl. If you can't completely hide yourself with a sewing kit and a few spools of yarn, you stay in the basement. Age difference? Doesn't matter. What's important is whether or not she shuts up the first time you tell her to.

How's this compare to your model?

(April 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: No need to apologize. It's not improbable there is a textual basis in hadiths, otherwise, you would think extremist would not just make up the principle. I just wanted to know if there was evidence Islam taught that while I was unaware of any evidence.

Faith restored, my friend.