(April 15, 2013 at 3:10 am)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(April 15, 2013 at 2:19 am)Godschild Wrote: What is observable should speak for itself, the more God is displaced in this country the worse things have gotten. When I was growing up we didn't lock our doors at night and when my parents sent me and my sister to school, they never considered we would be harmed. I could go on and on, but I believe everyone understands what I'm saying.

Well... I don't understand. What does the separation between church and state have to do with that?

You need to look into the recent history of this country. When I was going to school we had daily prayer, the Bible was read to students in class, the Ten Commandments hung on the wall, children were learning the value of others. By the time I was in high school most of this had been removed from schools and it was telling, not so much with my age group, but the ones coming in behind us. Now kids are killing kids and teachers and principals. When a girl got pregnant she left school to have the baby, why, because it was an embarrassment to her and her family. Now nurseries are set up in school. I do not expect you to understand, we come from very different times, but to be honest seeing what was and what is, I really believe what was, was much better. I do not believe the government should be controlled by the church, that's exactly what the founders wanted to make sure of, and that never happened, even before God was removed.

Yeah, in my private Christian school, we had all that you just explained. I also got my knuckles beaten for being left handed, and the headmaster had a paddle with holes in it hanging conveniently above his desk which he was known to use exclusively on bare butts for every possible transgression. My school was K-12, and the headmaster seemed to prefer it when teenaged girls were the ones who got into trouble.

Hm.. I guess you're right, godschild, that is WAY better.

(April 15, 2013 at 2:19 am)Godschild Wrote: What is observable should speak for itself, the more God is displaced in this country the worse things have gotten. When I was growing up we didn't lock our doors at night and when my parents sent me and my sister to school, they never considered we would be harmed. I could go on and on, but I believe everyone understands what I'm saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_th..._over_time

Doesn't mention God anywhere.

(April 15, 2013 at 4:14 am)Godschild Wrote: You need to look into the recent history of this country. When I was going to school we had daily prayer, the Bible was read to students in class, the Ten Commandments hung on the wall, children were learning the value of others. By the time I was in high school most of this had been removed from schools and it was telling, not so much with my age group, but the ones coming in behind us. Now kids are killing kids and teachers and principals. When a girl got pregnant she left school to have the baby, why, because it was an embarrassment to her and her family. Now nurseries are set up in school. I do not expect you to understand, we come from very different times, but to be honest seeing what was and what is, I really believe what was, was much better. I do not believe the government should be controlled by the church, that's exactly what the founders wanted to make sure of, and that never happened, even before God was removed.

Bud, take off your nostalgia glasses and actually look at the world; for example, I don't know about where you are, but where I am, those girls who got pregnant and left school to have their baby sometimes had those kids forcibly adopted without their consent. And I'm being very charitable and avoiding the misogynistic "embarrassment to her family" line, which is objectively just crap spackle.

Every generation is absolutely sure that things were better in theirs, but even if we were to take your claim as true, it only goes back a certain length of time; once we get back to the point of theocratic violence- otherwise known as maximum god- things start to get worse.

A convenient time for kids to pray in school during the 50s was when they had those drills where they had to hide under the desk in case of a nuclear attack.

(April 15, 2013 at 4:14 am)Godschild Wrote: When a girl got pregnant she left school to have the baby, why, because it was an embarrassment to her and her family. Now nurseries are set up in school. I do not expect you to understand, we come from very different times, but to be honest seeing what was and what is, I really believe what was, was much better. I do not believe the government should be controlled by the church, that's exactly what the founders wanted to make sure of, and that never happened, even before God was removed.

Well… There's this:
http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/resou...0-2006.pdf
See that lovely spike of teenage pregnancy from about 1948 until around 1961? Yeah… teen pregnancy rates have fallen since then, in fact they are currently lower than at any other point on the chart. I understand that it was a "simpler time" and teens were forced to marry if they got pregnant, people tended to get married earlier, etc. But still, the rate is lower than it was back in the "good old days." Thank you, birth control.

I sometimes think people from an older generation don't realize how much more we communicate and have access to the happenings in the country, making it seem like things happen MORE even if they actually happen LESS, simply because we can actually see it and it doesn't get hushed up.

(April 11, 2013 at 12:40 am)smax Wrote: I'll be curious to see what the overall results of this poll will be, but I'm even more interested to hear what Christians have to say, particularly those who live in the United States.

But any and every point of view should make for some very interesting discussion.

The term 'seperation of Chruch and state' can mean anything from the First amendment:"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" To the justification of hunting down and either killing or the forced 're-education' of Christians in Communist camps after WWII in communist China.

I favor the first amendment version:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; Which orginally meant the goverment had no say in where or how religion was practiced.

(April 15, 2013 at 4:14 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 15, 2013 at 3:10 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Well... I don't understand. What does the separation between church and state have to do with that?

You need to look into the recent history of this country. When I was going to school we had daily prayer, the Bible was read to students in class, the Ten Commandments hung on the wall, children were learning the value of others. By the time I was in high school most of this had been removed from schools and it was telling, not so much with my age group, but the ones coming in behind us. Now kids are killing kids and teachers and principals. When a girl got pregnant she left school to have the baby, why, because it was an embarrassment to her and her family. Now nurseries are set up in school. I do not expect you to understand, we come from very different times, but to be honest seeing what was and what is, I really believe what was, was much better. I do not believe the government should be controlled by the church, that's exactly what the founders wanted to make sure of, and that never happened, even before God was removed.

Yeah, back in the day, life was pretty sweet if you were white, Christian, straight, and working class. It's too bad that your anecdotal idea of the world in which you grew up is artificial.

When you were going to school, while you had children indoctrinated in your evil superstitions, you also had women, blacks, and gays excluded from much of society, when Christian-inspired racism, sexism, and homophobia ran rampant. But hey, good for you, whitey.

(April 14, 2013 at 6:03 pm)ebg Wrote: Who will be doing the validating? And how do you ensure their validation isn't influenced by the beleive in say Islam or fire worship or ancestor worship?

Well a medical study how about that by an qualified medical center lets say on gay marriage, why not? Or what alternative are you proposing circular reasoning ''my faith says its true therefore its true'' while a person may not change their belief why shouldn't a government official try to justify a law beyond that, how is is fair to other faiths or non-faiths, not to? The US wasn't founded as a Christian nation.