To answer the OP, you shouldn't. Spend your time doing something useful. Talking to your folded hands is as useful as boiling empty pots.

(April 25, 2013 at 10:51 am)justin Wrote: Why pray? What is prayer good for? Isn't it just wishful thinking? Do you think it makes a difference?

Hi Justin,

From the Catholic (universal) Christian perspective, prayer is primarily a conversation, a form of communication, with God or even the Saints. Prayer can be vocal or mental.

(Saints are the people who are with God - i.e. who are "in Heaven".)

Catholic Christians talk to God for various reasons:

- to adore / glorify God

We love God, our Father: He appreciates hearing that, just like any biological parent does. This doesn't represent vanity or being "needy", (for God or biological parents), but just the simple beauty, happiness and contentedness which comes through knowing that someone you love also loves you back. To be givers and receivers of love is why we exist.

- to give thanks to Him

For our very lives, for our talents and gifts, for our amazing universe and beautiful planet, for those whom we love, for our favourite music, for all the good things in our lives, for our everyday experiences, for all the little things that make us smile, for all we have seen and done, for all we have learnt etc etc

God is the source of all of this, and we are thankful for it.

- to express contrition

Ie for whenever we f*ck things up somehow, which we all (not just Catholics!) do and very frequently. We Catholics call these occasions "Sins".

Sins offend God and injure or even rupture (end) our relationship with Him. Practising Catholics must repair this situation via contrition in prayer, hence they pray.

- to ask for His benefits

Essentially to petition God for things, Eg: To ask God for His grace: for courage, strength, humility, or patience for oneself, or for the wellbeing and care of loved ones, including those whose mortal lives have ended.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen, an American, said we pray “because we are orchestras and we always need a tune-up.” He taught the importance of prayer in recharging our spiritual batteries.

As for my own experience of prayer, I would say that, done properly (which isn't always, at times people can be guilty of rushed, or absent minded prayer, or can be distracted etc) I find it a very fulfilling experience, which leaves me feeling very serene, refreshed and content.

While I completely agree with you, Gabe, they are specifically talking about the "ask for his benefits" section of this.

(April 26, 2013 at 4:23 pm)Tex Wrote: While I completely agree with you, Gabe, they are specifically talking about the "ask for his benefits" section of this.

Hi Tex,

Hows it going?

I think the discussion can be more open than just the one part of prayer, why not discuss it in its entirety?

The OP didn't limit us:

(April 25, 2013 at 10:51 am)justin Wrote: Why pray? What is prayer good for? Isn't it just wishful thinking? Do you think it makes a difference?

I thought (the bold) was quite a broad and open question, but no probs if people have more specific questions.

Cheers
GS

*Mother praying for dying son*
God- I know what you want, I just want to hear you beg

@ Gabe

I guess you're right. I tend to try and really focus the argument regardless. Carry on.

it is deffo not only the "asking God for favors" type of prayer we should be discussing, as I see it. I guess that subtly says something about people that that is usually what first comes into most people's heads when the subject comes up. The thing is that no matter what the reason one might be praying it comes down to pretty much the same two things, (1) you are a believer, so of course you are going to believe that this is a good thing to do, or (2) You do not believe, so what would be the point?

When I was still a believer, of various descriptions along the way until I shut myself of the whole business, I routinely attended services much of the time, and usually said grace before meals. Why? Because I wanted to, it felt good, it was the right thing to do - to my way of thinking at the time. There is a whole lot to it for you IF you believe. It is far from being just about "asking God for favors". I never liked doing that anyway.

But for a good while now I've been free from that "Cosmic North Korea" Hitchens talked about. And he was right about it, for that was what was going with me. I just didn't not see it in that way. But then I could no longer deny what was going on and that was why none of this was working for me no matter which branch of the religious tree I shook or how hard I shook it. There was nobody up there to hear my prayers, pure and simple. It was kind of scary at first, but then I grokked that Hey! What this really means is I'm free! I'm an autonomous agent who is worth just as much as anyone else! It's up to me, and me alone. Nothing has ever felt righter, for want of a better way to put it.

(April 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm)Tex Wrote: You cannot believe and then ask for murder. You cannot believe and then ask for pedophilic acts to no longer be a sin. There are obvious limits to the prayer, mainly being faith.

Well, you could, but that doesn't mean Jesus would approve. Or by belief do you mean more than simply "I believe you exist" but ratehr adherence as well?

(April 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm)Tex Wrote: Specifically, in this prayer, never is it mentioned that God will throw the mountain into the sea for you (both English and Latin). You will receive it through belief, but faith (synonymous with belief), according to James 2:17, is so that you can act. I'm thinking that the disciples would have to work for it. The mountain does not magically get up and move, but it can still be thrown into the sea.

The most obvious question that comes to mind is if you have to work for it, then how could you distinguish between an answered prayer and purely your own efforts? In a rather extreme example, I could pray that this post be posted and then click the post button. Did god answer my prayer?

I have a feeling that your response to this will be something to the effect that it allows us to do something we couldn't do without him.If that is the case I would ask how exactly the disciples (or for a more testable example, someone in modern times) would move the mountain in a way that wouldn't have been possible sans prayer.

(April 26, 2013 at 3:26 pm)Raven Wrote: Tonus said: Wishes are just mini-prayers, you know. OK, but who am I mini-praying to? Howzabout I just would really like it if they'd stop already? Will that do?

That's the best part about being free of religion; you can make wishes to whichever deity you want! I direct all of my wishes at Halle Berry. She has yet to answer any of them, and well... she'd probably be traumatized by a few of them. But I have faith!!!

(April 26, 2013 at 7:27 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(April 26, 2013 at 3:26 pm)Raven Wrote: Tonus said: Wishes are just mini-prayers, you know. OK, but who am I mini-praying to? Howzabout I just would really like it if they'd stop already? Will that do?

That's the best part about being free of religion; you can make wishes to whichever deity you want! I direct all of my wishes at Halle Berry. She has yet to answer any of them, and well... she'd probably be traumatized by a few of them. But I have faith!!!

I like how your mind works!