Actually, there is one God who actually exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_Movement
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6734469.stm

There is photographic evidence:





I even know people who have met him!

Wow. Before I clicked on the links I already thought that if this was true, it probably will be blacks doing the worship. Why do some of them have such an inferiority complex towards whites?

This god thingy shown up yet?

Quote:If you mean this (current) moment? God's action are done within time
If you mean at the first event, then time didn't exist then.

So you say god can exist outside of time even though events are taking place and his actions take time, so again why can god not exist and another god not exist, why can both gods exist outside of each others time if one god can exist outside of our time?

(June 4, 2013 at 10:11 am)paulpablo Wrote:

Quote:If you mean this (current) moment? God's action are done within time
If you mean at the first event, then time didn't exist then.

So you say god can exist outside of time even though events are taking place and his actions take time, so again why can god not exist and another god not exist, why can both gods exist outside of each others time if one god can exist outside of our time?

I didn't say that it is the choice of God to exist inside or outside of time (according to my definition)

God will not exist inside time at the first event because time itself doesn't exist

The first event is proved to be unique and from a single source, so any other deities or events are illogical because it will contradict with the proof.

P.S. there is no our and their time because we are talking about relating events (regardless of where and when)

If we consider relative time (i.e. relating events to a specific repeated event) then there will be first event for each time frame we consider

(June 5, 2013 at 1:50 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: ...

Man, can't you see that something for which you have to lean over backwards and make very dangerous statements about edge-cases of time and space is probably not worth spending so much time on?

I know you think God affects your life through the beauty in nature and through the warm fuzzy feeling you get inside when thinking about Her, and I applaud you for your observations, but I'm sorry its blatantly obvious that nature doesn't need a God to work so well and you can have warm fuzzy feelings also when petting a dog, which would make the dog happy as well, right now the dog is sad and lonely because everyone spends so much time dueling over where time begins

(June 5, 2013 at 1:50 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: God will not exist inside time at the first event because time itself doesn't exist.

If God exists before the universe was created, then time also exists for him. You can't separate time from existence. The moment you postulate the existence of anything, be it God or the universe, then time is automatically implied.

(June 5, 2013 at 9:43 am)little_monkey Wrote: If God exists before the universe was created, then time also exists for him. You can't separate time from existence. The moment you postulate the existence of anything, be it God or the universe, then time is automatically implied.

I agree with that but what is time to us except the changing of night to day and vice-versa? Do you subscribe to the arrow of time theory? An event can only change from orderly to a disorderly state thus allowing us to see evidence of time moving forward? It would be pretty difficult to show the effects of time if there are little signs of it, such as the Earth not orbiting, the sun not moving, the planets stationary etc.

Quote: Ok so just one question, does god exist outside of time at this moment?

If you mean this (current) moment? God's action are done within time
If you mean at the first event, then time didn't exist then.

Ok so is god within time right now?

If he isn't then how are his actions within time?

Also why could there not be two Gods existing separate from the universe and time?

For example in your definition you have

(God) (universe, space time, humanity, gods actions)

So why could you not have

(god) (god) (god) (god) (universe, space, time, humanity, gods actions)

Why is the second one not possible?, the gods aren't related to each other, they simply exist the same as your god does, separate from everything else including one another.

(June 5, 2013 at 10:03 am)ideologue08 Wrote:

(June 5, 2013 at 9:43 am)little_monkey Wrote: If God exists before the universe was created, then time also exists for him. You can't separate time from existence. The moment you postulate the existence of anything, be it God or the universe, then time is automatically implied.

I agree with that but what is time to us except the changing of night to day and vice-versa? Do you subscribe to the arrow of time theory? An event can only change from orderly to a disorderly state thus allowing us to see evidence of time moving forward? It would be pretty difficult to show the effects of time if there are little signs of it, such as the Earth not orbiting, the sun not moving, the planets stationary etc.

But it's not possible for matter not to be in motion. That would violate the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. And for God, it would imply, he isn't thinking from moment to moment. He would be frozen in "time", if you postulate that time doesn't exist for him. Not matter how you cut it, you run into a contradiction. If God existed before he created the universe, then time existed for him. But then you've got the other conundrum. He had to exist for an eternity of time, prior to the creation of the universe. And then one can easily postulate that the universe could have existed for an eternity. God is then superfluous.