Hi Palko. Nice name; why not stop by our intro department and tell us a little about yourself?

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: One thing I do not understand. If no God exists, then why are you using your precious moments on Earth convincing already devout
atheists about the non-existence of a supreme being?

Thing is, I don't know of anyone here actually doing that. It would be the equivalent of going around knocking on people's doors and saying "Good morning! Have you heard the Good News? There is no God! Have a nice day!", which would be a bit silly.

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: Also, the Christians following these threads are presumably strong enough in their faith to not be swayed by the arguments.

Generally, yes, but that would be less strong in faith and more closed-minded.

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: If I was an atheist, I would be living life to the fullest for myself, now and every second I breathe, because there is nothing at the end.

Imagine Bill Gates or someone similar treating you to a huge meal at some hideously exclusive and swanky billionaire's restaurant. You know you can never afford even to think about putting a down-payment on a dream of eating there again, so this is literally your once in a lifetime opportunity. What do you do? Wolf down the whole lot as fast and as sloppily as you can, in the conceited and quite frankly gluttonous hope there might be second helpings? Or take as long as you possibly can, savouring each and every mouthful, to get the most out of the experience since this is the only meal you know for certain you're likely to have?

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: Your life on earth will end at any time and then the world will forget your name and no one will care.
What a wonderful reality!

Some of us have already faced this end of which you speak, if not directly then via a third party with the loss of loved ones. Their names will be remembered forever, because those left behind really do care. I wouldn't describe it as wonderful, exactly, but the alternative you describe sounds infintely worse.

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: However, I do believe in a loving, heavenly Father who is both merciful and just and this is my motivation in life, to give to others, to love people. Hope brings peace,

Congratulations, at least then you don't believe in the Abrahamic god by the sounds of it. A right basty nastard, as the Reverend Spooner might have put it.

(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: God Bless,
Paul.

Kthnxbai!

(June 17, 2013 at 11:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Of course he ignores the flat out proof his assertion is wrong, of course.

What gringo? Hitler did have a history with the Church, but I see it not that he believed, but that he used the beliefs of the Christian majority in Germany to achieve his own goals...

Dear Minimalist,
I do not mean to inflame your heart. This is an open forum thread about atheism and Christianity and I thought I'd put in a word.
God Bless,
Palko.

(June 18, 2013 at 1:31 am)Polaris Wrote:

(June 17, 2013 at 11:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Of course he ignores the flat out proof his assertion is wrong, of course.

What gringo? Hitler did have a history with the Church, but I see it not that he believed, but that he used the beliefs of the Christian majority in Germany to achieve his own goals...

Because, lemme guess, no True Christian would commit atrocities, huh?

Awfully convenient, that time traveling telepathic power you have, that allows you to see into the hearts of men long dead in order to tell us the truth, that his beliefs didn't match the actions we use to confirm his beliefs today.

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(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: If I was an atheist, I would be living life to the fullest for myself, now and every second I breathe, because there is nothing at the end. Your life on earth will end at any time and then the world will forget your name and no one will care.
What a wonderful reality!

Who says I don't just like having these debates?

Besides, just because in time the memory of me will fade doesn't mean my existence was any less meaningful. It doesn't happen less, because it won't persist; it's up to me to make my life the best one I can.

And really, if I wanted to, I could broach the idea that your life is just as troubling, since you believe this life to be just a test run, a giant cosmic joke with the real thing yet to come. But we both know that's not true, and that nothing that comes after, or before, could diminish the precious few years we have in this reality, the only life we know for sure we have.

Quote:However, I do believe in a loving, heavenly Father who is both merciful and just and this is my motivation in life, to give to others, to love people. Hope brings peace,

And your god doesn't have the market cornered on hope.

(June 18, 2013 at 1:46 am)Esquilax Wrote: Because, lemme guess, no True Christian would commit atrocities, huh?

Christians do what humans do. Following Christ can't be opposing Christ.

(June 18, 2013 at 1:46 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(June 18, 2013 at 1:31 am)Polaris Wrote: What gringo? Hitler did have a history with the Church, but I see it not that he believed, but that he used the beliefs of the Christian majority in Germany to achieve his own goals...

Because, lemme guess, no True Christian would commit atrocities, huh?

Awfully convenient, that time traveling telepathic power you have, that allows you to see into the hearts of men long dead in order to tell us the truth, that his beliefs didn't match the actions we use to confirm his beliefs today.

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(June 17, 2013 at 11:22 pm)Palko Wrote: If I was an atheist, I would be living life to the fullest for myself, now and every second I breathe, because there is nothing at the end. Your life on earth will end at any time and then the world will forget your name and no one will care.
What a wonderful reality!

Who says I don't just like having these debates?

Besides, just because in time the memory of me will fade doesn't mean my existence was any less meaningful. It doesn't happen less, because it won't persist; it's up to me to make my life the best one I can.

And really, if I wanted to, I could broach the idea that your life is just as troubling, since you believe this life to be just a test run, a giant cosmic joke with the real thing yet to come. But we both know that's not true, and that nothing that comes after, or before, could diminish the precious few years we have in this reality, the only life we know for sure we have.

Quote:However, I do believe in a loving, heavenly Father who is both merciful and just and this is my motivation in life, to give to others, to love people. Hope brings peace,

And your god doesn't have the market cornered on hope.

Because I'm of the belief (well most political scientists as well) people just use religion as an excuse to go to war and the politicians are the ones who are irreligious simply using the beliefs of others to fill their own selfish desires for wealth and power.

(June 18, 2013 at 1:36 am)Palko Wrote: Dear Minimalist,
I do not mean to inflame your heart. This is an open forum thread about atheism and Christianity and I thought I'd put in a word.
God Bless,
Palko.

The only thing about catholics that "inflames" me is the revolting tendency to overlook the pervert priests and the hierarchy which enabled them. You can condemn that if you wish and avoid that particular list.

The ball is in your court.

Quote:Hitler did have a history with the Church, but I see it not that he believed, but that he used the beliefs of the Christian majority in Germany to achieve his own goals...

Hitler was a fine example of German xtianity.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/15..._jews.html

Quote: Dr. Martin Luther
(1483-1546)

On the Jews and Their Lies

(June 18, 2013 at 1:55 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Christians do what humans do. Following Christ can't be opposing Christ.

And following christ is a works based thing, not a beliefs based one?

Quote:Because I'm of the belief (well most political scientists as well) people just use religion as an excuse to go to war and the politicians are the ones who are irreligious simply using the beliefs of others to fill their own selfish desires for wealth and power.

People can believe in god and still lust for power and wealth. Just look at the Vatican. The motivations for war are different things from the sincerity of the man's beliefs, and there's simply no way to gauge the latter; christians would have us believe that they can, based solely on their actions.

As if people never do the wrong thing for the "Right" (read: religious) reasons.

A whole lot inflames me more about catholic church than overlooking perverts. In overall consequence the monsterous crime of raping boys and shielding the prepetrators in but a small time misdemeanor compared to denouncing contraceptives in Africa and south America.

One hurts thousands, the other kills millions, if not tens or even hundreds of millions, as surely as if a crucifix is driven by the hands of the priests through each of their hearts.

(June 18, 2013 at 2:05 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(June 18, 2013 at 1:55 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Christians do what humans do. Following Christ can't be opposing Christ.

And following christ is a works based thing, not a beliefs based one?

Quote:Because I'm of the belief (well most political scientists as well) people just use religion as an excuse to go to war and the politicians are the ones who are irreligious simply using the beliefs of others to fill their own selfish desires for wealth and power.

People can believe in god and still lust for power and wealth. Just look at the Vatican. The motivations for war are different things from the sincerity of the man's beliefs, and there's simply no way to gauge the latter; christians would have us believe that they can, based solely on their actions.

As if people never do the wrong thing for the "Right" (read: religious) reasons.

Well I was educated to be skeptical of the BS reasoning people go to war. They can lie all they want that it's for religious reasons (there are some clashes due to religion, but that's just seeded in hatred and mob mentality...think Nigeria), but time and time again, it's been about secularism....which is why I love the 30 Years' War....the European nations finally admitted what they were fighting for....after that, the wars were viewed as succession wars and religion was used less and less as a motivator for war....thank the French.