I've been gone for a while, and just wanted to come back and say..HI! I guess after reading the same arguments and the same fallacies. These debates have left me a bit unsatisfied. A debate should only be engaged if both sides are dedicated to following the rules of logic, and if after ones arguments have been shown to be fallacious, it should not occur again. This is not the case though. It seems that while some claim to be champions of logic, they are actually more concerned with being repeat offenders of trampling on it. My patience is dwindling, and the reward of constructive discourse seems more and more unlikely as chances of such a thing falsely present themselves. This is not an attack on Theists. Atheists of course, are also guilty of it. However, given the nature of the usual debates around here, Theists just seem to be more vulnerable to it on the whole. Just curious if anyone else has thought this and what epiphanies it has inspired in you. It’s left me odiously cynical.

Yeah... I'm also getting tired of the same old and seriously considering closing the tab for this forum...

Most "theists" and many other religious folks alike will affirm a belief in god no matter what evidence comes their way. I'm not going to say it's fun debating them, for their arguments do tend to defy logic, but I also won't say that it's wasted time. Sometimes, little by little, the evidence will start stacking up, and minds will change. I'm not one to give up on the human race

(July 3, 2013 at 10:09 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Most "theists" and many other religious folks alike will affirm a belief in god no matter what evidence comes their way. I'm not going to say it's fun debating them, for their arguments do tend to defy logic, but I also won't say that it's wasted time. Sometimes, little by little, the evidence will start stacking up, and minds will change. I'm not one to give up on the human race

While I appreciate your optimism and too think that some will see the folly of their ways, I do not at all think it a likely outcome for certain individuals in an arena of this sort. I think at best, they will change their minds, and change forums. I think some would much rather do that, rather than give anyone the satisfaction of thinking they've bested them. For the most part, when a valid objection is raised about a theistic claim, the response is all too similar to a child in a Toy Store, plugging their fingers into their ears, and stomping their feet while screaming loudly. I can't say this bodes too well for the likelihood of any fruitful discussion, even if it is entertaining for a short while. Did I say this was a waste of time? I do not recall saying that. I think it is useful in keeping your debate and critical thinking skills sharp, I’m just beginning to wonder if that is the most one can hope to obtain through this sort of interaction.

(July 3, 2013 at 9:02 am)Texas Sailor Wrote: I've been gone for a while, and just wanted to come back and say..HI! I guess after reading the same arguments and the same fallacies. These debates have left me a bit unsatisfied. A debate should only be engaged if both sides are dedicated to following the rules of logic, and if after ones arguments have been shown to be fallacious, it should not occur again. This is not the case though. It seems that while some claim to be champions of logic, they are actually more concerned with being repeat offenders of trampling on it. My patience is dwindling, and the reward of constructive discourse seems more and more unlikely as chances of such a thing falsely present themselves. This is not an attack on Theists. Atheists of course, are also guilty of it. However, given the nature of the usual debates around here, Theists just seem to be more vulnerable to it on the whole. Just curious if anyone else has thought this and what epiphanies it has inspired in you. It’s left me odiously cynical.

If you want a one on one debate with someone, I am sure you can start a thread for something like that. This website and other atheist websites I go to are there for us to vent and talk about lots of things, including things not god related. I don't think science or reason with all the brains here is going to be harmed by being informal.

(July 3, 2013 at 10:43 am)Brian37 Wrote: If you want a one on one debate with someone, I am sure you can start a thread for something like that. This website and other atheist websites I go to are there for us to vent and talk about lots of things, including things not god related. I don't think science or reason with all the brains here is going to be harmed by being informal.

I can appreciate that there is a formal debating opportunity within this forum, and I extend my presupposition of the outcome of informal debates to those as well. The form of the debate was not at all a factor in taking my position. I was curious if anyone else has shared this same view. While I know that other topics can be discussed here, they are not the subject of my post. Perhaps I was too vague with what I wrote in the OP. I do not find consolation for my quandary by considering the possibility of productive discussions being made in the Video Gaming forum, or any other for that matter. I’m sure that there are people on here, with a multitude of different reasons for joining. I would presume that many of them are probably quite satisfied with what they receive from their experience. That was not what I was taking aim at with my post however. The nature of my post was specific to discussions of the religious kind, and the logical content they sometimes lack. I did not mean to sound as if I thought this forum posed any threat to science or reason (far from it), only that the discussions of a scientific or logical nature, sometimes seem to ignore the foundation and principles on which they are established. Without regard to such principles, such discourse, to me, is not worthwhile. I apologize for any confusion caused on my part when trying to convey this.

You have just figured out why my posts regarding religion are mostly snarky one-liners. Stick around long enough, and you see the same old debates get recycled. As you have noticed, however, the real kicker is the debates tend to be two people talking at each other, instead of an actual exchange of ideas.

Just look what happens when you're around as long as Min. has been here.

Some days I am less active than others, and that is usually because I am reading the same old tired illogical arguments from theists to which I cannot be bothered to respond. Therefore, I simply sit back, chill, and read what other atheists state in response. Then when I feel better, or have something to state, I will jump in again.

(July 3, 2013 at 11:50 am)Faith No More Wrote: You have just figured out why my posts regarding religion are mostly snarky one-liners. Stick around long enough, and you see the same old debates get recycled. As you have noticed, however, the real kicker is the debates tend to be two people talking at each other, instead of an actual exchange of ideas.

Just look what happens when you're around as long as Min. has been here.

Right. Fuck off!

But seriously, no amount of internet arguing is going to dissuade some asshole who believes in an invisible sky-daddy who loves him and will punish all the people he hates for all eternity that his entire life is a charade. Not going to happen.

I merely enjoy the freedom to tell them directly that their god is a load of shit and haven't gotten tired of it yet.

The best that can be hoped for is that a seed of doubt will be planted and from there it has to grow on its own. Numbskulls like G-C and Waldork are hopeless cases yet.... why do they keep coming back to be ridiculed. I put it down to a martyrdom complex.

I'm sorry that so many of you feel like this place has noting more to offer but overused and repeated discussions.

Here's my two cents: I don't come here for the debates, especially the religious ones. I'm here because of Lilly's crazy threads, because of Orogenicman's pictures of the universe, because of TGAC's news updates, because of Whateverist's photos of his garden and of Heidi Rose and Fletcher, because of Apo's and Stimbo's eloquence and because of the new members, who are entirely new to all this. I'm here because of my friends.