(September 20, 2013 at 3:17 am)Captain Colostomy Wrote:

(September 20, 2013 at 2:43 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Unfortunately calling them loons won't make them stop, being rational with them will work on some.

I could say placating those with entrenched, irrational beliefs won't shake them up, but tough love via stern rebukes might.

Depending on the individual targeted, we both stand a slim chance of being right.

---

(September 20, 2013 at 3:10 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Do not what to shame any one. What I am trying to say is that this is a serious threat and calling them loony will make it worse. That said I have seen what some Christians on here say and yes they disgust me.

Is this a good time to whip out the "offense is taken, not given" quote? Athiests taking offense by proxy seems silly. I also don't think you know what a serious threat really looks like. Now your last sentence claims you realize some theists are 'disgusting'...so what's the problem?

You don't consider a president that looks forward to the end of the world a problem? Or these problems caused directly by islamic fundamentalism?
The problem is we are often too quick to call them nuts, and the problem with a stern rebuke is that they are taught to hate us, so instead of listening they just hate us more.

(September 20, 2013 at 2:45 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Rationality isn't normally in their vocabulary, but it never hurts to try. Calling them loons may hurt feelings, but it keeps one from beating around the bush for too long.

The fact that I was rational when I was a theist was what allowed me to critically examine my beliefs and realize that what I thought was justification wasn't such. Calling them loons and idiots from the word go and repeatedly is entirely counter productive.

Much of the name-calling needs to be understood in context. Most of the people called idiots and fools have, in fact, demonstrated that they are. The problem I see(and I do this, too) is when we use generalizations as insults when we intend them for a specific person.

There's nothing wrong with calling someone who has clearly shown they are unreasonable a fool or a loon.

(September 20, 2013 at 9:58 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote:

(September 20, 2013 at 2:45 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Rationality isn't normally in their vocabulary, but it never hurts to try. Calling them loons may hurt feelings, but it keeps one from beating around the bush for too long.

The fact that I was rational when I was a theist was what allowed me to critically examine my beliefs and realize that what I thought was justification wasn't such. Calling them loons and idiots from the word go and repeatedly is entirely counter productive.

You would not have been very rational when you were a theist if being called a loon and and an idiot for being the theist deterred you from realizing that you were being a loon and idiot for being a theist.

I suppose it all comes down to what you think you can achieve with an individual theist. Sometimes you just realize you are wasting your time and they are just becoming ever more entrenched. I experienced this very recently where it became obvious that however badly the theist was arguing his position he wasn't going to change - even against an overwhelmingly logical argument.

At other times this is less important - the theist is still not going to budge but they do acknowledge that there are other paths that could be valid.

And then there are the times when you can help a theist see the light (LOL). In some cases it might be ridicule that works and in other it might be understanding, tolerance and patience where you lead them to the conclusions but let them make the final leap on their own.

For me that last possibility is a problem. If I have convinced someone that their theism has mislead them then I am honour bound to be there to support them as they struggle with their new reality. This can be extremely onerous. To me - convincing someone that they were wrong but leaving them suicidal is not much of a victory.

(September 20, 2013 at 11:41 am)Chuck Wrote: You would not have been very rational when you were a theist if being called a loon and and an idiot for being the theist deterred you from realizing that you were being a loon and idiot for being a theist.

And that's the assholery I was referring to; way to learn from Min. If your go-to move from the onset is to insult someone, discussion with you is pointless. Unlike with someone, like say, Koolay who routinely posts errant nonsense, calling someone an idiot for the merely being a theist is uncalled for, and is likely why theists don't tend to stick around here.

Knickers in a twist.

Well, I didn't call any Christian on here a bad name. I just insulted their ideas. Maybe that was bad. I'm married to a Christian, and I'd never call her ideas "shallow-minded, arrogant bullshit" unless I wanted a divorce. Which I do not.

It's just so hard to keep a positive attitude when theistic people don't even consider my ideas worthy of consideration. If only to hear, just once, "okay, maybe you've got a point." Oh, it would be ecstasy!

Quote:Well, I didn't call any Christian on here a bad name.

I'll handle that part of it for you. I've been dealing with that collection of shitheads for years, now.

(September 20, 2013 at 5:04 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Well, I didn't call any Christian on here a bad name. I just insulted their ideas. Maybe that was bad. I'm married to a Christian, and I'd never call her ideas "shallow-minded, arrogant bullshit" unless I wanted a divorce. Which I do not.

It's just so hard to keep a positive attitude when theistic people don't even consider my ideas worthy of consideration. If only to hear, just once, "okay, maybe you've got a point." Oh, it would be ecstasy!

Well I wasn't referring to one person in particular, and I certainly understand how frustrating it can be. One thing I really hate is keeping my beliefs quiet for fear of people disowning association with me. However if we ever want a world without religion we need to call them out in a rational and reasoned manner, show them you don't need God to be good and when we debate let their craziness come out on its own.