Quote:Jesus is a substitue to take our place.

At some level you seem to understand exactly how stupid your whole story sounds....but you can't quite pull the trigger on it.

Why do you have this compelling need to believe in the preposterous?

SBGTF, you didn't answer my question.

I asked, why does blood sacrifice make everything better.

You answer that it makes everything better.

You didn't answer why or how that works.

You didn't really expect an answer, did you?

Yes, you'd be better off praying for the answer. At least then you'd know not to expect one.

(September 29, 2013 at 8:33 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Only God could do it.

But Jesus Christ is not only fully God, but fully man.

Still never sinned for 33 years.
Went through a very tough death.
Bore the penalty and guilt of all sins.
None of it is His punishment, but our punishment.

That didn't answer any of my questions.

I also feel the whole death/ post-death judgement seems like double jeopardy.Any input from our resident theists?

(September 29, 2013 at 11:03 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Have you sinned?

Of course.

So do not worry about the hypothetical.

Oh, come on!

I knew this would happen, I knew even before I hit post that the answer I'd get would be to completely ignore the nature of a hypothetical and act as though I'd asked the question literally about myself. That's why I added the second sentence asking for you to just play along with the hypothetical despite the fact that we both know that your god's game is already in a failure state before you start playing.

It's the only way you can pretend your claims are true, isn't it? Your mind just stretches, becoming as literal or as metaphorical as you need it to be for any given situation. You guys make all these high and mighty claims, but the moment someone asks that you apply them to the real world, suddenly your view becomes this laser focused, intensely literal thing, so you don't have to answer in a way that belies how untrue the claim really is. I see it all the time, you ask a christian something that might destabilize their position, and they'll do anything to blow it off.

You ask them whether or not they deserve to go to hell, and you get back "Hey, I'm not the judge here." Does god send people to hell? "They send themselves." If god decided killing children is moral, would you think it was moral? "God wouldn't say that!"

It's obfuscation, pure and simple. Just indulge the hypothetical, would you? If there was a sinless person in the world, a normal guy like you or I, except entirely without sin, would he be immortal?

I know why you don't want to answer this. Doesn't mean I'mma let you off the hook for it.

(September 29, 2013 at 11:03 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote:

(September 29, 2013 at 9:26 am)Esquilax Wrote: So if I go through life without sinning, I'd be immortal?

I know that the game is configured in such a way as to make that task nearly impossible, and that's its own little slice of problematic, but let's all play the hypothetical game for a bit, yeah?

Or would I, sinless until the last, die just the same as anyone else?

Have you sinned?

Of course.

So do not worry about the hypothetical.

No I have not sinned and neither have you. Sin is to violate the will of god, and since there is no christian god, then there is no sin.
And until christians present a real, non-personal and verifable, body of evidence; there is no reason to believe that god is real.

Projection...