And Republicans keep wanting to "negotiate" piecemeal over law that has already been settled and is fully in effect. The Administration and the Dems aren't going to give an "inch," and I don't blame them. (Oh, and hint: Look for them to cave on the medical device tax. I'm pretty sure that will be the bargaining chip. Truly, it was worth shutting down the Federal Government over THAT?? You may not like hearing it, but that's exactly how it will play to Joe Schmoe in Peoria.)

I personally can't understand why businesses get to have a delay in the mandate but not individuals! If this healthcare is so great, people should want to get it willingly as opposed to being forced to get it.

But without forcing all those that need insurance the least amount of time (the young and healthy) the system is unsustainable. I'm willing to bet for at least the first couple years, young non-insured people will not buy into it. Without the subsidy, insurance premiums will jump due to increased volume of sick and dying...

But we shall see in the end.

The reason why businesses are getting a delay in the mandate is because it is so much more complicated to comply from the business side. The criteria to establish whether or not they are a "large" or "small" employer alone would make your head spin.

The healthcare is no different than what you would get if you worked for a big employer and participated in a group plan. It's the same health insurance companies administrating and the same doctors/hospitals/clinics providing the care.

Young people in general WILL need the insurance the least. But no one can guarantee they will enjoy good health, and that's the point. I carried health insurance I never used or needed for decades. Now I'm older and still healthy, but I cannot obtain health insurance any longer as a sole proprietor of a small business. What's the fairness in that? I can still get smushed by a tree on my property, trip and fall or get brain cancer. (So can a young person, incidentally.) Now that I have the most at risk, THAT'S when I can't get insurance? Horrible system.

Quote: Horrible system.

Hey, hey, hey...now. The republicunts think its wonderful. It all seems to be part of their plan to make sure the rich have less competition.

LOL, Min... I'm sure they're just crossing their fingers and hoping I die from colon cancer or some other middle-aged malady before I get old enough to collect the Social Security I paid into for my whole life!!!

(October 6, 2013 at 10:42 pm)Raeven Wrote: And Republicans keep wanting to "negotiate" piecemeal over law that has already been settled and is fully in effect. The Administration and the Dems aren't going to give an "inch," and I don't blame them. (Oh, and hint: Look for them to cave on the medical device tax. I'm pretty sure that will be the bargaining chip. Truly, it was worth shutting down the Federal Government over THAT?? You may not like hearing it, but that's exactly how it will play to Joe Schmoe in Peoria.)

I am neither R or D, but I. If you want to pigeon hole me, I am closest in ideology to libertarian. So I already know how this is playing out...I personally want to see both parties suffer for this shit because it shows how much they are for themselves and not the people of America.

I would personally like to see this result in people waking up and seeing how our government shafts all of us. The federal government was never meant to be this big and/or invasive, but we have allowed it, in the name of "progression". Politicians are abusive husbands wearing wife beater t-shirts: they abuse us while convincing us that it's our fault.

Quote:I would personally like to see this result in people waking up and seeing how our government shafts all of us.

You're an idealist.

(October 6, 2013 at 11:49 pm)Airyaman Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 10:42 pm)Raeven Wrote: And Republicans keep wanting to "negotiate" piecemeal over law that has already been settled and is fully in effect. The Administration and the Dems aren't going to give an "inch," and I don't blame them. (Oh, and hint: Look for them to cave on the medical device tax. I'm pretty sure that will be the bargaining chip. Truly, it was worth shutting down the Federal Government over THAT?? You may not like hearing it, but that's exactly how it will play to Joe Schmoe in Peoria.)

I am neither R or D, but I. If you want to pigeon hole me, I am closest in ideology to libertarian. So I already know how this is playing out...I personally want to see both parties suffer for this shit because it shows how much they are for themselves and not the people of America.

I would personally like to see this result in people waking up and seeing how our government shafts all of us. The federal government was never meant to be this big and/or invasive, but we have allowed it, in the name of "progression". Politicians are abusive husbands wearing wife beater t-shirts: they abuse us while convincing us that it's our fault.

I never pigeonholed you one way or another. I spoke of Republicans in a general sense, never said you identified with them. That said, I consider Libertarians as just immature Republicans who haven't been through enough in life to understand the importance of the role of government in a civilized society. Ayn Rand sounds like a good idea... when you're 14. When you figure out that bad things happen to good people every single day, you begin to appreciate social safety nets and how only government can facilitate them. I say this as a fully self-sufficient business owner who has never taken a government handout in my life.

How has the government shafted you lately? Taxes are at historical lows. How have they invaded you? Is your phone tapped?

Me, I personally know my representative in the House and I like him, think he's doing a fantastic job against all odds. I wouldn't have his shitty job for anything. I watch him and both my State Senators like a hawk. You want a different government? Get involved and make it your own. That's what I do.

ETA: I'm not bagging on you personally. I just get so tired of hearing people complain about government and not getting terribly involved in it. Maybe you do, I don't know.

I agree with you if what you mean that corporate interests are far too involved in our politics. That's been happening -- and not with very much subtlety -- for the past 30 years at least. I'd like to see Citizens United fully done away with. I want to see Glass-Steagall reinstated. I want more oversight and corporate money entirely out of our politics. Hell, I want campaign funds to be funded federally with no ties to any interests at ALL. It'll never happen, but hey -- even liberals can be idealists.

(October 6, 2013 at 11:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I would personally like to see this result in people waking up and seeing how our government shafts all of us.

You're an idealist.

You betcha. You can be whatever you want to be, I choose idealist over partisan hack.

You shouldn't make assumptions, either. I'm not registered with either party, either. But that's because the Dems aren't nearly liberal enough for me.