(October 9, 2013 at 7:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, what are you supposed to do? True, true, in a country where loyalty is bought and sold with money, the lack of it appeals to your materialistic and pragmatic selves, so you actually feel inclined to yearn for places that actually appeal to your way of thinking.
Is there no shred of idealistic patriotism that actually has a place in your hearts and minds?

Idealistic patriotism, or in my case, nationalism is not about "receiving". We as idealists are drawn to hardships and misery. I too, am not fond of the current government in my country. However does this make me less loyal to my people and my country? No! Do I feel as though I should be ashamed? For my sense of loyalty, and my sense of pride and consciousness is built on an ideal of a nation and a country. I strive towards that goal, no matter in which state the current gov or society might be. You on the other hand, are quick to throw the towel. This is why I asked, if you're so eager to swap flags, why do you keep them?
A flag represents whatever it was created to represent. For example, the Hungarian revolution flag represented a resentment of communism, as the hammer and sickle in the middle of the flag was cut off. Our flag, for example, represents our nation's sovereignity. The red, represents the blood that we have spilled to preserve our sovereignity and freedom as an independent nation. The crescent and moon represent our national spirit as warriors of the faith. If the current government is actually behaving in a way to insult the values that our flag represents, does this mean that I have to hold the flag accountable for it? Does it mean that I have to punish the flag? No! I will raise the flag even higher to show my disapproval, for it represents the values I stand for, even if the government doesn't.

As for your flag, you have stated that it represents a variety of things. The thing is, that it represents them. And if you actually believe in things that it represents, it is only logical that you use your flag for it.
The fact that your country now is not the place what your flag represents, more for a reason to venerate and raise your flag, so that it returns to the values it represents. What good would the donning of the Canadian flag do for you? While you're at it, why not proclaim yourself a loyal subject of the crown?

Your way of thinking is faulty, my friend.

The flag means less to me than the ideals it represents. Being that America purports to hold those ideals, yet reality is something quite different, it's very hypocritical. In addition, the people who seem hellbent on holding the country back from becoming everything the symbol stands for, wrap themselves in a blanket of patriotism and, literally, the flag. It's sick how people use patriotism. It's dangerous. I'm not fussed about the flag, they can keep it. I just want the execution of the ideals, which are hard to find here, because they've been bought and sold. They are separate things, ideals and symbols. They are not interchangeable. One has far more actual value and weight than the other. We can make the flag a giant pile of poo on a white background... whatever, I'm good, so long as America actually IS what it pretends to be, which we're not. America is a big, stupid bully, both on the international stage and to it's own citizens. I'm sick of it, and frustrated there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do about it.

(October 9, 2013 at 10:11 am)festive1 Wrote: The flag means less to me than the ideals it represents. Being that America purports to hold those ideals, yet reality is something quite different, it's very hypocritical. In addition, the people who seem hellbent on holding the country back from becoming everything the symbol stands for, wrap themselves in a blanket of patriotism and, literally, the flag. It's sick how people use patriotism. It's dangerous. I'm not fussed about the flag, they can keep it. I just want the execution of the ideals, which are hard to find here, because they've been bought and sold. They are separate things, ideals and symbols. They are not interchangeable. One has far more actual value and weight than the other. We can make the flag a giant pile of poo on a white background... whatever, I'm good, so long as America actually IS what it pretends to be, which we're not. America is a big, stupid bully, both on the international stage and to it's own citizens. I'm sick of it, and frustrated there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do about it.

My self serving preference would be for you to stick around and help hold the line against the massive throng of stupid in this country. Can't blame you though if you prefer a different life. We're staying but then we're in a very blue state and I think you're in a red one. Can't blame you for being uncomfortable stuck behind enemy lines.

(October 9, 2013 at 10:11 am)festive1 Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 7:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, what are you supposed to do? True, true, in a country where loyalty is bought and sold with money, the lack of it appeals to your materialistic and pragmatic selves, so you actually feel inclined to yearn for places that actually appeal to your way of thinking.
Is there no shred of idealistic patriotism that actually has a place in your hearts and minds?

Idealistic patriotism, or in my case, nationalism is not about "receiving". We as idealists are drawn to hardships and misery. I too, am not fond of the current government in my country. However does this make me less loyal to my people and my country? No! Do I feel as though I should be ashamed? For my sense of loyalty, and my sense of pride and consciousness is built on an ideal of a nation and a country. I strive towards that goal, no matter in which state the current gov or society might be. You on the other hand, are quick to throw the towel. This is why I asked, if you're so eager to swap flags, why do you keep them?
A flag represents whatever it was created to represent. For example, the Hungarian revolution flag represented a resentment of communism, as the hammer and sickle in the middle of the flag was cut off. Our flag, for example, represents our nation's sovereignity. The red, represents the blood that we have spilled to preserve our sovereignity and freedom as an independent nation. The crescent and moon represent our national spirit as warriors of the faith. If the current government is actually behaving in a way to insult the values that our flag represents, does this mean that I have to hold the flag accountable for it? Does it mean that I have to punish the flag? No! I will raise the flag even higher to show my disapproval, for it represents the values I stand for, even if the government doesn't.

As for your flag, you have stated that it represents a variety of things. The thing is, that it represents them. And if you actually believe in things that it represents, it is only logical that you use your flag for it.
The fact that your country now is not the place what your flag represents, more for a reason to venerate and raise your flag, so that it returns to the values it represents. What good would the donning of the Canadian flag do for you? While you're at it, why not proclaim yourself a loyal subject of the crown?

Your way of thinking is faulty, my friend.

The flag means less to me than the ideals it represents. Being that America purports to hold those ideals, yet reality is something quite different, it's very hypocritical. In addition, the people who seem hellbent on holding the country back from becoming everything the symbol stands for, wrap themselves in a blanket of patriotism and, literally, the flag. It's sick how people use patriotism. It's dangerous. I'm not fussed about the flag, they can keep it. I just want the execution of the ideals, which are hard to find here, because they've been bought and sold. They are separate things, ideals and symbols. They are not interchangeable. One has far more actual value and weight than the other. We can make the flag a giant pile of poo on a white background... whatever, I'm good, so long as America actually IS what it pretends to be, which we're not. America is a big, stupid bully, both on the international stage and to it's own citizens. I'm sick of it, and frustrated there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do about it.

It is absolutely disgusting that you spit on a flag that has been the symbol of freedom. Why do you think so many people want to come live here? The way you treat our flag is an abomination and you SHOULD move to whatever country you prefer and get over yourself. People have fought and died for the flag that you spit on. Remember Iwo Jima?

Fuck the flag. It's a goddamn flag. If people are dying for a flag then they're idiots. If they're dying for what it represents, that at least means something.

If the country I live in is being fucking stupid, I'm not going to respect its symbols JUST BECAUSE I live in this country and others care enough to get themselves killed over it.

(September 30, 2013 at 10:42 pm)Airyaman Wrote: GOP? It seems both sides have a stake, and one side is certainly not compromising.

GOP: How about this?
D: Nope.
GOP: OK, what about this?
D: Nope.

All of the fuckers are responsible, but guess what? Many of them are just doing what their constituents voted for. The tea party people were voted into office by those who wanted TP ideals. The Dems likewise. If you don't like the results you'll have to change government to get rid of checks & balances.

Obummer and the Dems: We'll use extortion tactics and apply political pain on the voters then point our fingers and blame the Republicans!

Boner, speaker of the Hoosegow: Go ahead. Make our day!

Voter: My God! I wish there was a viable third party to vote for!

(October 9, 2013 at 11:43 am)Psykhronic Wrote: Fuck the flag. It's a goddamn flag. If people are dying for a flag then they're idiots. If they're dying for what it represents, that at least means something.

If the country I live in is being fucking stupid, I'm not going to respect its symbols JUST BECAUSE I live in this country and others care enough to get themselves killed over it.

I am glad we don't have people like you serving in our front lines. But then again, it must be easy to judge standing behind an internet screen to spew your comments. Unless you have proven yourself on the front lines, then all you have shown with your comments is cowardice and disrespect. Until you have proven your stance with a gun and stand next to a fellow patriot fighting for our country, then and only then can you speak the words you speak with truth. What a contemptuous maggot you are.

(October 9, 2013 at 11:51 am)sarcasticgeographer Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 11:43 am)Psykhronic Wrote: Fuck the flag. It's a goddamn flag. If people are dying for a flag then they're idiots. If they're dying for what it represents, that at least means something.

If the country I live in is being fucking stupid, I'm not going to respect its symbols JUST BECAUSE I live in this country and others care enough to get themselves killed over it.

I am glad we don't have people like you serving in our front lines. But then again, it must be easy to judge standing behind an internet screen to spew your comments. Unless you have proven yourself on the front lines, then all you have shown with your comments is cowardice and disrespect. Until you have proven your stance with a gun and stand next to a fellow patriot fighting for our country, then and only then can you speak the words you speak with truth. What a contemptuous maggot you are.

I'm pretty sure our country says that I can say whatever I want. Some shit about free speech. And I cannot serve in the front lines, genius. There is no way I would be let into the military due to illness.

(October 9, 2013 at 11:27 am)sarcasticgeographer Wrote: It is absolutely disgusting that you spit on a flag that has been the symbol of freedom. Why do you think so many people want to come live here? The way you treat our flag is an abomination and you SHOULD move to whatever country you prefer and get over yourself. People have fought and died for the flag that you spit on. Remember Iwo Jima?

You know, as someone whose grandfather fought in WW2, in both the European and Pacific (mostly Pacific) theaters, I have to let Bill Hicks say this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-UGv4XsEWQ

(October 9, 2013 at 11:43 am)Psykhronic Wrote: Fuck the flag. It's a goddamn flag. If people are dying for a flag then they're idiots. If they're dying for what it represents, that at least means something.

If the country I live in is being fucking stupid, I'm not going to respect its symbols JUST BECAUSE I live in this country and others care enough to get themselves killed over it.

The door to this country swings both ways. If you can't handle living here then adios, arrivederci, au revoir, adeus, הֱיֵה שָׁלוֹם!, 再见, さようなら, goodbye and GTFO! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

(October 9, 2013 at 12:00 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 11:43 am)Psykhronic Wrote: Fuck the flag. It's a goddamn flag. If people are dying for a flag then they're idiots. If they're dying for what it represents, that at least means something.

If the country I live in is being fucking stupid, I'm not going to respect its symbols JUST BECAUSE I live in this country and others care enough to get themselves killed over it.

The door to this country swings both ways. If you can't handle living here then adios, arrivederci, au revoir, adeus, הֱיֵה שָׁלוֹם!, 再见, さようなら, goodbye and GTFO! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Actually, I want to stay here and watch things.

In any case, you need money to move out of this country (I have family who has tried) - or be accepted into a foreign schooling system.