(October 14, 2013 at 12:30 pm)Hey313313 Wrote: I can't force any religion on you, but I swear to you this, if you pray to God earnestly, he will show you the way and He will answer. try it once as an experiment, sincerely pray, not out of anger or mockery, and you will Hear. can't hurt to try right?

You presume that many of us were never theists? Or perhaps you assume that we were, since I note that you loaded your challenge with qualifiers. This isn't the first time it's been suggested that if we simply pray, god will respond. But like your challenge, the other suggestions make sure to tell us that we must do it "earnestly" and "sincerely" and "not out of anger or mockery."

I grew up a believer, and spent many years praying earnestly, sincerely, and without a hint of anger or mockery. No god. Whenever I explain this, it is implied that I may have thought that I was earnest and sincere (or whatever particular qualifiers were being offered) but I really wasn't. The fact that this paints god as remarkably small and petty does not bother the theist. The important thing is keeping the illusion alive.

(October 14, 2013 at 12:30 pm)Hey313313 Wrote: I rejoice in this) John 15:18. Whether you believe or not, the satisfaction of knowing that this post may put an inkling of a doubt into one non believer's mind. A doubt in their own beliefs, that there may be a God. That is enough for me. If you have a belief, even in the slightest (1 x 10^70). I can't force any religion on you, but I swear to you this, if you pray to God earnestly, he will show you the way and He will answer. try it once as an experiment, sincerely pray, not out of anger or mockery, and you will Hear. can't hurt to try right?

Right, because I wasn't a practicing Christian for close to a decade.

I feel sorry for you.




If you pray, God listens, ey? Like Job? Or... or... like me? Say your god was real (he isn't, but let's pretend), why the fuck would I pray to it even if he listens, since he doesn't do anything about it? Shove all the links you want up my ass and I still think your preaching is naïve. I could tell you about my life as a Christian and all the times I prayed for mercy and help and you'd be questioning your ability to debate his existence or benevolence, because of course, you will never doubt your faith. Of course I tried praying. Have you tried praying to the flying spaghetti monster? Have you tried praying to my god, Bacon? It sounds silly, because it is. What makes you think you are so special that you were born in a place where believing in Jesus was normal and so many other people were born elsewhere and lucked out of it? So, your god is real to you because you live there, and everyone else who lives in a place where Saint Crispy is lord will go to hell. Think, dammit! If your god is so real... where is the evidence? Why can't you prove it? Don't tell me you have a link up your sleeve, tell me about your data. Don't fuck around telling us it doesn't hurt to try, because you don't know us. I probably know the Bible more than you do, you fool. I read it two times and then started reading it a third time during the time of my deconversion. I grew up in the first bench of every church my parents built and founded. I knocked on fucking doors to invite people to church. I preached from church to church where I was invited. I went to a fucking bible institute. I fucking "spoke in tongues" like an idiot! Still... I do not believe in any gods because I came to realize everything I ever believed in was full of shit. If you were born in India you would probably be worshiping Ishvaras thinking that everybody else is missing out.

This is not even about your god being a meany if he was real. I'm just trying to make you understand some of us have tried the praying thing, so don't make assumptions. There is just no evidence that your god is real. Understand that.

If you don't see your life having any value unless a god exists, then I feel sorry for you. My life has value. Lots of it. More than ever. Don't come here and try to tell us that if we pray we will believe. Some of us have done that. Bring something new. Proof! A good argument. A good reason. Something fresh. Explain how all the counter evidence is bull. Do it!

(October 14, 2013 at 2:48 pm)Ivy Wrote: Shove all the links you want up my ass...

Is this a sausage reference?

Go Blow Jesus Out Your Ass.

Here's the thing I can never figure out about prayer. (It's probably been stated here a million times, but I'm new, too lazy to go find those other posts, so get off my back, ok??)

If your god is all knowing, all seeing, and everything happens for a reason™, then... isn't it sort of rude to pray? I mean, entreating your particular deity to see it your way and grant you a particular outcome for, oh, a speeding ticket or your football team to win -- or even something a little more significant to you, like saving a loved one from leukemia... aren't you being just a tad presumptuous?

And anyway, it never changes anything. People who pray v. people who don't have the same outcomes, statistically. Isn't that a bit suspicious? Or at least, a complete waste of your time?

(October 14, 2013 at 2:50 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 14, 2013 at 2:48 pm)Ivy Wrote: Shove all the links you want up my ass...

Is this a sausage reference?

I don't know, but it's getting warm in here.

(October 14, 2013 at 3:03 pm)Raeven Wrote: Here's the thing I can never figure out about prayer. (It's probably been stated here a million times, but I'm new, too lazy to go find those other posts, so get off my back, ok??)

If your god is all knowing, all seeing, and everything happens for a reason™, then... isn't it sort of rude to pray? I mean, entreating your particular deity to see it your way and grant you a particular outcome for, oh, a speeding ticket or your football team to win -- or even something a little more significant to you, like saving a loved one from leukemia... aren't you being just a tad presumptuous?

And anyway, it never changes anything. People who pray v. people who don't have the same outcomes, statistically. Isn't that a bit suspicious? Or at least, a complete waste of your time?

There is real psychology at work in 'prayer'. While I do not endorse all of the views expressed in this article, I will say that the 'psychology of prayer' is at work in nearly all cases of prayer 'working' for an individual in gaining a particular cognitive construct.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enli...ics-prayer

Quote:Remarking on prayer, meditation and the power of intention, Paramahansa Yogananda and his contemporaries drew not only on the core of spirituality, but also fundamental principles of psychology and specifically neuroplasticity to describe the transformation of the interior landscape. The exterior expression of that interior transformation extends the intention of transformation outward, with prayer, and most specifically collective prayer, providing, in part and quite literally, the vehicle, to quote Mahatma Gandhi, for "[Being] the change [we] wish to see in the world."

I find the whole concept of prayer to be really fucking offensive. If you get a promotion, it's because god helped, not because you worked hard. If you didn't get it, it's because you didn't pray hard enough. It's always that god gets the credit for anything good, and you get the credit for anything bad.

And when you move this into life and death issues (your child dies of leukemia while someone else's child goes into remission) is pretty fucking awful. If you say "God has answered our prayers and cured little Jimmy!" what the fuck kind of message is that for dead little Sally's parents? Sorry- you just didn't pray right, or hard enough, or something.

It's absolutely disgusting. And if it was all true, it would be even more disgusting.

(October 14, 2013 at 3:25 pm)Zazzy Wrote: If you get a promotion, it's because god helped, not because you worked hard.

Or perhaps you give awesome blowjobs..