(October 28, 2013 at 6:13 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 4:35 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: What is sin, and how do you know that I've done it?

Do you agree with that idea as being a good idea and worthy of trying to follow?

Weak and oh so obvious deflection attempt - I asked you first.

(October 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Only if you can prove there's a god to sin against. Otherwise it sounds like you're creating the problem and then offering the only solution.

Ok, before the "God problem" you present . . .

Two people are in a room, person A and person B. Person A goes over to Person B and punches him/her in the face repeatedly.

Assuming that Person B does not want to be punched in the face, is there a problem? And how do we know?

Or how about this . . .

People A and People B both live on the same planet. Despite being of the same species (homo sapiens) People A terrorizes People B, locks them up, exterminating some and carrying out painful experiments on the rest.

Is there a problem? And how do we know?

Quote:For example- loving your neighbor as yourself. Treating others the way you would want to be treated. Do you agree with that idea as being a good idea and worthy of trying to follow?

Absolutely.....an idea

Quote:Do not to your neighbour what you would take ill from him. (Pittacus of Mytilene, 650 BCE)

in Greek philosophy which predates your boy by nearly 7 centuries.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:21 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Only if you can prove there's a god to sin against. Otherwise it sounds like you're creating the problem and then offering the only solution.

Ok, before the "God problem" you present . . .

Two people are in a room, person A and person B. Person A goes over to Person B and punches him/her in the face repeatedly.

Assuming that Person B does not want to be punched in the face, is there a problem? And how do we know?

Or how about this . . .

People A and People B both live on the same planet. Despite being of the same species (homo sapiens) People A terrorizes People B, locks them up, exterminating some and carrying out painful experiments on the rest.

Is there a problem? And how do we know?

If this is your style, you'll burn fast strawman. Ignore list here you come.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:18 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 6:13 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Do you agree with that idea as being a good idea and worthy of trying to follow?

Weak and oh so obvious deflection attempt - I asked you first.

Not a deflection. I am trying to establish if you believe in any kind of moral behavior as opposed to immoral.

You see? Because I do not know you personally, so I have to listen first.
I understand from quick observation that you do not believe in God. If you are a total nihilist then we are having a completely different conversation then if you an atheist who believes in a certain moral standard.

Now, again, because I do not know you I can not scientifically list out your sins. Even if I did know you, I wouldn't be able to. I do not know your heart.

But I would have to ask you another question to established if you sinned (assuming you are an atheist with a moral standard). Have you ever had to, or felt you should, apologize to someone?

Now, if you are a complete nihilist, I would move on so a different topic all together being that you believe in nothing, and nothing has value, including human interaction and relationships.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:06 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 4:33 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Religious folks are always quick to concede that their religion does not necessarily make believers better person.

So here's a question, what's the point believing? What's the point of claiming nonbelievers need your religion if your religion doesn't make us better persons? What's the point of being superior on paper when in actuality your chances of being an asshole is just the same as ours?

Great question.

Now, because we are in an atheist forum, I need to make sure we are starting from the same basis. I don't want to say why we need Christianity to be a better person and then end up disagreeing on what a better person is.

So I would ask you, what is your standard for a "good person"?

someone who goes out of their way to avoid causing harm to others would be a good person.

Within reason of course, I don't expect people to sacrifice themselves for strangers especially when the sacrifice is disproportionate, I don't consider that good.


Edit: I don't believe in "good persons", in my post I said better. I don't believe in completely bad or completely good people. Actually I believe in completely bad, but not completely good.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:35 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Have you ever had to, or felt you should, apologize to someone?

Atheists don't apologize, GR. Ever. We are way too busy eating Christian babies and attending Dawkins study sessions for any of that nonsense.

In any case, none of it means anything anyway, given that all of us are nihilists. No purpose to life. Such a bleak existence- except for the delicious babies.

Are we going to have the morality conversation with EVERY SINGLE ONE of you uneducated twits?

(October 28, 2013 at 6:28 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 6:21 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Ok, before the "God problem" you present . . .

Two people are in a room, person A and person B. Person A goes over to Person B and punches him/her in the face repeatedly.

Assuming that Person B does not want to be punched in the face, is there a problem? And how do we know?

Or how about this . . .

People A and People B both live on the same planet. Despite being of the same species (homo sapiens) People A terrorizes People B, locks them up, exterminating some and carrying out painful experiments on the rest.

Is there a problem? And how do we know?

If this is your style, you'll burn fast strawman. Ignore list here you come.

This is not a straw man. You claimed that I was making up a problem to justify God. I am countering that by first addressing that there is a problem in the world that I did not create - the way people treat others at times.

So, my question to you is, "If there is a problem in the world, how do we know it to be a problem without first admitting that there is sin?"

If the word "sin" throws you, we can call it whatever you like. Immoral behavior? Either way, I did not create it.

Once we agree on this point (or disagree), we can start working towards the "God problem" you presented - What does God have to do with "immoral behavior."

(October 28, 2013 at 6:35 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Have you ever had to, or felt you should, apologize to someone?

Is there a reason I should apologize? Is that your real question?

Are you about to equivocate my awareness that I may have stumbled within my social group, and need to assert corrections, with the assumption of a necessary cause outside myself and my group, i.e. god? If so, then you may move on. Your entire premise is based upon an assumed presumption with absolutely no quantifiable nor empirical evidence to support it. The bible, your ever-changing traditions, your gooey feelings, and your fantasies are all your ilk have - not a god.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:43 pm)Zazzy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 6:35 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Have you ever had to, or felt you should, apologize to someone?

Atheists don't apologize, GR. Ever. We are way too busy eating Christian babies and attending Dawkins study sessions for any of that nonsense.

In any case, none of it means anything anyway, given that all of us are nihilists. No purpose to life. Such a bleak existence- except for the delicious babies.

Are we going to have the morality conversation with EVERY SINGLE ONE of you uneducated twits?

Eating babies! Got it!

You see? Now I am getting to know you better. I prefer roasted chicken, but it doesn't really matter (nihilist joke, not very good). Now you know me a little better, but that means nothing as well (can't stop).

No purpose to life, that means that you are completely free to make up your own purpose, do whatever you like.

But this also means that you are can ignore logic? Since it means nothing. Just a bunch of babbling animals pretending to be something more than what they are.

Do you deny logic?