(October 28, 2013 at 3:36 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 3:17 pm)Drich Wrote: where does the bible make this conection? (B/C/V Please)

Ex 20:3-4 (NIV) "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."


Phil 3:19 (NIV) "Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things."

There you go.

Ooooo, fun! Someone has found some courage to step to the plate!! get it?

Phil 3 in context:
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[b] let us be of the same mind. 17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

Then let's look at the koine word for belly, Transliteration
koilia
Pronunciation
koi-lē'-ä (Key)

It can mean gluttony, and it can mean womb, but it can also mean the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart as the seat of thought, feeling, choice.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...2836&t=KJV

Now take an honest look at the passage from verse 15 to 20 again has food been mentioned once? Has the mind or the 'seat of thought' been mentioned in this passage? Yes several times. The whole last 1/2 of the chapter is about transforming how believers are to think. So given the evidence what is more likely? Is Paul speaking to Gluttony/food (even though it has not been mentioned in this chapter?) or is Paul speaking against going with gut feelings and worshiping what ever 'feels' right?

And to my friend who has built his 'house' upon the sand there you go.

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(October 28, 2013 at 4:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Drich Wrote: So, you do know the difference between a PROVERB and a Law or command right?

The verse CLEARLY gives a directive not to be a glutton and a drunkard. However, since YOU are the most important interpreter of the bible and there is no other christians who would ever disagree with you than we can all CLEARLY agree that gluttony is ok and so is drinking.

Since its more important to prove Min wrong, you should definitely go against your own scriptures .... you know ... just to prove some ridiculous point. Idiot.

To whom was this directive given? (The OT Jews) When? (Durning or even after the reign of Solomon which was at least 500 years after the law was given to Moses.) so then the question becomes Why wasn't it included in the pentetuch? The obvious answer... It was a proverb or saying like a penny saved is a penny earned, or the easily bird catches the worm. Or it is the second mouse that gets the cheese... Not law. The law of Moses was completed by Moses, that it is why it was called the law of Moses.
Therefore this 'directive' is relegated to a wiseman's proverb/the way the wise live their life not as the law of Moses.

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(October 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm)Zazzy Wrote: I still don't have a good definition of "sin." It is usually defined by theists as "things that displease god." Yet what is a sin changes from religion to religion, sect to sect, and person to person. Is being fat a sin or not? Is drinking to excess a sin or not?

Odd that shoving corn dogs in one end and displaying it openly is perfectly fine, but shoving penises in the other and displaying it openly is a sin. Why would anyone take someone as persnickety as the christian god seriously?

Sin is anything that places one outside the expressed will of God.

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(October 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 3:17 pm)Drich Wrote: Looks like another sunday schooler who missed the day they taught the difference between a PROVERB and a Law or command of God.

So I guess that thing about homosexuality doesn't count then? So why are Christians in such an uproar against homosexuality?

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(October 28, 2013 at 4:21 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: All have sinned. Everyone! Pointing this out does not make Christianity less true. It actually supports the reason we as humans need Christianity.

Only if you can prove there's a god to sin against. Otherwise it sounds like you're creating the problem and then offering the only solution.

Because there is not a Santified pretext in which homosexual sex can be permitted. In essence all sex out side the bounds of a Santified marriage is a sin. God does not permit same sex marriages, therefore all homosexual sex is outside the bounds of a Santified marriage making it a sin.

(October 29, 2013 at 12:32 am)Drich Wrote: Blah, blah, blah, the bible, the bible, the bible...

(My representation - click green arrow to see in context)

Your bible proves nothing. You are deceived.

You missed my point entirely - The bible's lies are bullshit.

(October 28, 2013 at 9:10 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 9:04 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Ok, I've defined sin. Can you please state whether free will exists?

This thread is about hypocrisy, and not sin, nor free will. If you want to define free will according to your understanding on a thread of your own, and you are willing to discuss the views of others on the topic, then I will be very pleased to contribute. As for this thread, I am finished with the splintering-off that has taken place, and I don't care to attempt to answer your question here. Thank you, and I look forward to your thread.

Hypocrisy . . . sure we can come in from that angle too.

Fat Christians, Christians that lie, Christians that commit adultery, yadda, yadda, yadda. There are all types of ways to fall short of the Glory of God.

What does this prove?

(October 29, 2013 at 3:05 am)GodsRevolt Wrote: What does this prove?

It proves that the christian god hideness is really convenient. Usually god tends to think the same way as any individual christian. Kinda like catholics (that I was, before my mind grew up), cherry pick some parts of the bible as literal, while others not so moral (or contradictory) are deemed metaphores, hyperbolae or any other excuse.

It also proves that religion is a very nice way to give an excuse for believers to tell others what to do without even bothering to reason their morality, like pigs, wearing the finest robes.

(October 29, 2013 at 1:43 am)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 29, 2013 at 12:32 am)Drich Wrote: Blah, blah, blah, the bible, the bible, the bible...

(My representation - click green arrow to see in context)

Your bible proves nothing. You are deceived.

You missed my point entirely - The bible's lies are bullshit.

Swing and a miss, Strike 3! Hey, at least you tried. Most won't even do that. Even so, we need to do a failure analysis of you arguement.

You started under the persumption that the 'catholic' identification of 'Gluttony' is a sin was biblically based. However as we explored the bible, you found out that persumption is not consistant with biblical Christianity. Although without doubt, gluttony is frowned upon in the bible, it is never identified as a sin. This does not mean in certain version of christianity gluttony isn't identified as a sin.

From this initial persumption, you saw an oppertunity to persecute fat christians as hypocrites, it appears even in the beginning you saw an oppertunity to take it a step further by adding personal insults.

This in itself if a failure of the understanding of basic Christianity. As we are not expected to live a perfect life. Christ died so that our 'best' however short of perfection that is, is all that is now required.

Now because your OP is based on the biblical identification of Gluttony as a sin, the bible (no matter what you personally think of it) is now a viable point of reference to refute your claims of what the bible/christianity does indeed says about gluttony. Now that it appears that you have conceeded your gluttony arguement (that it is a Christian Sin) Any further persection of fat people Christian or not, is just good old fashion biggotry/Intolerance on your part. Simply Because there is no hyprocrisy there, not to mention the fact that even if there were, it could be forgiven. That leaves Only hate, and the Need to persecute Fat Christians.

Drich,

I think you are trying to convince the wrong team here.

There's 1.1 billion Catholics waiting outside that need to be convinced. As far as I understand they mean it when they say the 7 deadly sins.

Gotta say though - gluttony seems pretty sinful to me- wasting food to waste your own life in the process.

Can't we get them under the sin of committing suicide? We could get the smokers too that way.

Suicide is a sin, isn't it?

All so difficult with you Christians and your crazy rules.....

(October 29, 2013 at 9:00 am)Drich Wrote: You started under the persumption that the 'catholic' identification of 'Gluttony' is a sin was biblically based. However as we explored the bible, you found out that persumption is not consistant with biblical Christianity. Although without doubt, gluttony is frowned upon in the bible, it is never identified as a sin. This does not mean in certain version of christianity gluttony isn't identified as a sin.

(October 29, 2013 at 9:00 am)Drich Wrote: Now because your OP is based on the biblical identification of Gluttony as a sin, the bible (no matter what you personally think of it) is now a viable point of reference to refute your claims of what the bible/christianity does indeed says about gluttony. Now that it appears that you have conceeded your gluttony arguement (that it is a Christian Sin) Any further persection of fat people Christian or not, is just good old fashion biggotry/Intolerance on your part. Simply Because there is no hyprocrisy there, not to mention the fact that even if there were, it could be forgiven. That leaves Only hate, and the Need to persecute Fat Christians.

Ezekiel 16:49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

(October 28, 2013 at 11:43 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: Of the seven deadly sins, would it not be sloth and/or gluttony? Either one will do it.

And to my knowledge them seven deadly sins are extra Biblical catholic doctrine which I imagine most protestants don't give a toss about. Unless them pics are of catholics, it's not exactly hypocrisy imo.

Lust is a much better sin.

I remember the original movie "Bedazzled" staring Dudley Moore and Peter O'Toole (actually better than the remake with Brendan Frasier) where Satan had the seven deadly sins working for him. He worked out of a nightclub in London, with Anger as the bouncer (wearing a T-shirt that said "Make war not love"), Sloth was constantly tired & falling asleep, and IIRC Raquel Welch as Lust.

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(October 29, 2013 at 12:32 am)Drich Wrote: Because there is not a Santified pretext in which homosexual sex can be permitted. In essence all sex out side the bounds of a Santified marriage is a sin. God does not permit same sex marriages, therefore all homosexual sex is outside the bounds of a Santified marriage making it a sin.

What's a "Santified" marriage? A wedding where Santa Claus performs the ceremony?

If you mean "sanctified," there is a WHOLE LOT of un-sanctified sex in the bible, from Onan screwing his dead brother's wife, to King Solomon and all his wives and concubines. Not to mention Lot's daughters having sex with him.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16546_the...bible.html

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(October 29, 2013 at 3:05 am)GodsRevolt Wrote: Fat Christians, Christians that lie, Christians that commit adultery, yadda, yadda, yadda. There are all types of ways to fall short of the Glory of God.

What does this prove?

It proves that Christians aren't better than other people just because they're Christians.

(October 28, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Ho hum.....

So, you do know the difference between a PROVERB and a Law or command right?

Once again, Drippy. Go fuck yourself. You wanted to know where it was and I shoved it up your ass.

BTW, Deut. is full of laws. Really stupid laws. Perfect for morons like you.

You Christians and Catholics (the same, though somehow different - even they don't know) are so fucking thick-headed. I never said Christianity was about being perfect, and on another thread I confessed to being quite an asshole as a Christian (falling short of the glory of god as it was called when I was under 'grace' - now it's just me being an atheist asshole, but hey, I digress). The point of this thread is to remind Christians that your 'sins' (yes, Drich, food can become an idol - thus is 'sin') are very apparent. and some (gluttony), in particular are 'worn' as the thread title displays. My point was, if Christians can't control themselves, then who the hell do these fattie-fuck-tards think they can convince of a god? Fuck sake, god can't even get his church to go on a diet. In other words theists... When you have your shit all together, and your savior has empowered you to overcome your wicked lack of self control, then, and maybe only then, should you dare to tell us here, or anyone, anywhere, what is right, and what is wrong.

As a bonus, do you want to know what I would take as the beginning signs that god exists? If fat American Christians stop eating all of their fast food and crap, and invest their money into the needs of the community, I'll think about a god being possible (is that too much to ask? No big partings of the seas or anything - in fact this is completely do-able in the natural - let's have it) Or, how about the Vatican opens up its vaults to the poor and needy? No, too much for god? Your impotent god is non-existent, and your religion is violent in its presumptions against mankind. You are powerless slaves - all of you theists.

Ok, Tally to save Drich time:

4 Swear words.

7 Insults against your ilk.