(January 21, 2014 at 1:39 pm)là bạn điên Wrote: No I disagree because it is not based on any research at all but is 'surmised' by sociologists so it fits in with their ideology.

Not true. There are literally dozens of credible, thorough studies that describe the sociological drivers for career selection among different ethnicities in the UK. Institutionalised discrimination is a factor. It's not the only factor but it is an important influence and one which could & should be eradicated if our society values a level playing field of career opportunity for all its citizens.

Quote:The Nature bit massively outweighs the nurture bit when it comes to pure power sports like sprinting.

It does in terms of individual performance (the better your physical equipment, the easier the training will be and the higher the top-end of your performance) however in terms of selection opportunity, there's a demonstrated link between unreasoned racial stereotypes and career opportunity, availability & selection; not to mention the tendency for people to be more compartmental towards others of differing ethnicity and inclusive of their own. These are types of cultural, institutionalised discrimination. Often, individuals aren't even conscious that they're discriminating and it takes significant effort, both individually and culturally, to become aware of all these influences and develop mechanisms to combat them.

Quote:In no way whatsoever can the predominance of West African Ancestored sprinters be cultural.

Sorry, the evidence disagrees with you: there are important cultural influences and that includes some discriminatory influences.

Quote:However you gave the reason above as cultural,you didn't mention genetics at all.

I never claimed that culture was the only reason, ever; I always used the indefinite article. As I've said before, I'm well aware of the variety of influences but the evidence indicates that some of those are discriminatory.

Quote: That's the trouble with 'anti racists' they try and quash anyone bringing genetic factors into the equation

Only the unreasonable ones, not all anti-racists behave the same. The majority of those with serious influence are more than aware of the complexity of the factors involved and don't try to oversimplify. Bad decisions would result. Of the masses, there are plenty of people like myself who rationally review the evidence and have well informed opinions.

Quote:-like those arseholes Rose, Lewontin and Kramer who's 'science for the people' force marxism onto science -with disasterous consequences.

I know of Steve Rose because of his rows with Dawkins but I'm not familiar enough with his works or the works of the others to comment on their politics. I'll look them up.

(January 22, 2014 at 9:42 am)Ben Davis Wrote: Not true. There are literally dozens of credible, thorough studies that describe the sociological drivers for career selection among different ethnicities in the UK. Institutionalised discrimination is a factor. It's not the only factor but it is an important influence and one which could & should be eradicated if our society values a level playing field of career opportunity for all its citizens.

So show me these dozens of 'credible' studies

Quote:It does in terms of individual performance (the better your physical equipment, the easier the training will be and the higher the top-end of your performance) however in terms of selection opportunity, there's a demonstrated link between unreasoned racial stereotypes and career opportunity, availability & selection; not to mention the tendency for people to be more compartmental towards others of differing ethnicity and inclusive of their own

You are seriously claiming that black people utterly dominate UK sprinting because of racial stereotypes? Some sociologist came up with that one did they? Funny how sports scientists don;t seem to agree

Quote:. These are types of cultural, institutionalised discrimination. Often, individuals aren't even conscious that they're discriminating and it takes significant effort, both individually and culturally, to become aware of all these influences and develop mechanisms to combat them.

Sound s like the way Christians make you want to 'ask god to come into your life'. Obviously it is also designed to make lots of money for 'diversity training' companies. I don't believe in neo marxism in any way shape or form or its bastard brother in post modernism with ots simplistic drivel of oppresed vs opressed and 'privelage'

Quote:Sorry, the evidence disagrees with you: there are important cultural influences and that includes some discriminatory influences.

No it doesn't. Ranting by marxist soiciologists is not proof

Quote:I never claimed that culture was the only reason, ever; I always used the indefinite article. As I've said before, I'm well aware of the variety of influences but the evidence indicates that some of those are discriminatory.

You indicated that the reason was cultural

Quote:Only the unreasonable ones, not all anti-racists behave the same. The majority of those with serious influence are more than aware of the complexity of the factors involved and don't try to oversimplify. Bad decisions would result. Of the masses, there are plenty of people like myself who rationally review the evidence and have well informed opinions.

Wow super arrogance- you claim 'well informed' opinions and yet you just parrot neomarxism. Yoyu sound like an ideologue to me

Quote:I know of Steve Rose because of his rows with Dawkins but I'm not familiar enough with his works or the works of the others to comment on their politics. I'll look them up.

You will undoubtedly love him.

Even as a radical socialist (although I'm most definitely not a leftist, as the left has sold out to cultural Jihad, while I am an immigration conservative) I hate the neo-Marxists & post-modernists who put ideology over truth. Marx would kill himself if he saw the idiocy his followers now promote. The reason Marx said "I am not a Marxist" was because he wanted nothing to do with the inanity of some of his followers. Socialism must be based in science, not the other way around.

(January 22, 2014 at 10:27 am)là bạn điên Wrote: So show me these dozens of 'credible' studies

Here's a few to get you started, you'll have to do more research of your own if you want more info:

Influence of Social Cognitive and Ethnic Variables on Academic Goals of Underrepresented Students in Science and Engineering: A Multiple-Groups Analysis
Perceived Barriers to Education and Career: Ethnic and Gender Differences
Some influences upon the occupational aspirations of three white-collar ethnic groups

Quote:You are seriously claiming that black people utterly dominate UK sprinting because of racial stereotypes? Some sociologist came up with that one did they? Funny how sports scientists don;t seem to agree

So I have to repeat myself for the 3rd time, do I? Institutionalised discrimination is one of the reasons. It is not the only reason but it is a major influence.

Quote:Sound s like the way Christians make you want to 'ask god to come into your life'. Obviously it is also designed to make lots of money for 'diversity training' companies. I don't believe in neo marxism in any way shape or form or its bastard brother in post modernism with ots simplistic drivel of oppresed vs opressed and 'privelage'

My points have nothing to do with marxism, neo or otherwise. They have to do with the facts of the influencers of career selection in different ethnic groups. Stop trying to misrepresent my position or this conversation's over.

Quote:No it doesn't. Ranting by marxist soiciologists is not proof
[quote]
Blah, blah, blah, marxists... Blah, blah, blah, leftists... Got anything cogent to say?

[quote]You indicated that the reason was cultural

Yet again, not the reason, a reason. You're deliberately being obtuse aren't you.

Quote:Wow super arrogance- you claim 'well informed' opinions and yet you just parrot neomarxism. Yoyu sound like an ideologue to me

Dreadful ad-hom. I've parroted no-one. If neomarxism is represented by the arguments you claim I've put forward (as opposed to the points I actually made) then I am very much not one: I'd never be so simplistic. Also I'm vehemently opposed to the strictures caused by blindly following ideologies and I'm publically outspoken about that, including in posts on this forum. Even my profile states that I'm pan-political. That you're trying (and failing) to attack my character rather than my argument is telling.

Quote:You will undoubtedly love him. (Steve Rose)

Since you can't (deliberately refuse to?) even understand my perspective, you'll forgive me for taking your literary recommendations with a pinch of salt.

---

Also this:

Oh wonderfull its a cartoon. One with lots of cherry picked items. Loved the one about inter racial murder since when a black man kills a white man it doesn't make the news but in the case of the reverse it always makes news. Trayvon Martin/george Zimmerman is the obvious one. My favourite piece of nonsense from your cartoon is the 71% of bachelors degrees going to white people as if that number is proof of anything at all since white people are 72.4% of the US population.

Person of color, like, it doesn't just focus on blacks, but also the Mexicans, whose ranks are swelling with new and fresh immigrants from Mexico, who are mostly of lower class, and have no roots or belongings in the US, and are obviously more prone to be involved in crime.

What a Bullshit thread! White privilege my ass! When we can recognize George Washington's birthday as a national holiday again, have a month set aside to learn about White history, benefit from affirmative action for White people, etc...maybe then we can talk about White privilege.

The problem with white privilege is that white lopeople can go home at the end of the day and totally forget (not even on purpose) that for the last few hundred years they toed a line in the sand and only allowed a few people to cross it.

(January 24, 2014 at 5:08 pm)BrokenQuill92 Wrote: The problem with white privilege is that white lopeople can go home at the end of the day and totally forget (not even on purpose) that for the last few hundred years they toed a line in the sand and only allowed a few people to cross it.

Well pardon me all to hell! I apologize! I totally forgot all about how I've been treating Black people over the last few hundred years!

(January 24, 2014 at 5:08 pm)BrokenQuill92 Wrote: The problem with white privilege is that white lopeople can go home at the end of the day and totally forget (not even on purpose) that for the last few hundred years they toed a line in the sand and only allowed a few people to cross it.

Yeeeaaahhhhh.....that wasn't me. I got an alibi. Check my birth certificate.