If there would be evidence for god there would already be nobel prize winners for discovering god and this forum would become obsolete and I would be a theist instead of agnostic.

(March 17, 2014 at 11:08 pm)psychoslice Wrote: Don't get me wrong I love science and all that it has given us, but again it cannot prove everything, it cannot tell you what love is, it can only tell you what chemical activity goes on in the body because of love, but that isn't love.

Sure it is. You're confusing what love is with what it feels like to experience love. Science can't tell you exactly what it feels like to be a cat but that doesn't mean we can't know everything else there is to know about cats! Perhaps it's an experience we could simulate if the entire neural network of a cat's brain was mapped out and thoroughly understood.

Quote:I feel that the Mystics knew something that many of us don't know about, its beyond our conceptual mind. We are swimming in this world that is all connected, we are feeling our way through it with our senses, and through our senses we build this world, without the senses there is no world, that is the world we know.

Yes but unless there is an independent reason to think this is on the right track, and maybe it is, than all you have to go on are the unreliable guesses and assumptions people make in interpreting the causes of their own experiences--which (and it sounds counter-intuitive), they're (and we're) far from experts in doing.

Quote:I feel that the Mystics knew something that many of us don't know about, its beyond our conceptual mind. We are swimming in this world that is all connected, we are feeling our way through it with our senses, and through our senses we build this world, without the senses there is no world, that is the world we know.

They know how to put themselves in a state of certain feelings. But I don't think they know something about the world that I don't.

the only evidence for god is the universe and the chances of it all coming together so perfectly. you have to admit, it does seem a bit hard to fathom. I'm not carl sagan but even he must doubt from time to time. it does sometimes feel like we are the center of everything. we speak of all of these dimensions that seem harder to comprehend than the universe we float in. I don't know...

(March 18, 2014 at 12:35 am)heathendegenerate Wrote: the only evidence for god is the universe and the chances of it all coming together so perfectly. you have to admit, it does seem a bit hard to fathom. I'm not carl sagan, but even he must doubt from time to time. it does sometimes feel like we are the center of everything. we speak of all of these dimensions that sound harder to fathom than the universe we float in.

Not if there is a multiverse.
Out of gazillions of universes some of them will be suitable for life simply by chance.

Just as in our universe out of gazillion planets in gazillion solar systems some of em are suitable for life simply by chance.

(March 18, 2014 at 12:25 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(March 17, 2014 at 11:08 pm)psychoslice Wrote: Don't get me wrong I love science and all that it has given us, but again it cannot prove everything, it cannot tell you what love is, it can only tell you what chemical activity goes on in the body because of love, but that isn't love.

Sure it is. You're confusing what love is with what it feels like to experience love. Science can't tell you exactly what it feels like to be a cat but that doesn't mean we can't know everything else there is to know about cats! Perhaps it's an experience we could simulate if the entire neural network of a cat's brain was mapped out and thoroughly understood.

Quote:I feel that the Mystics knew something that many of us don't know about, its beyond our conceptual mind. We are swimming in this world that is all connected, we are feeling our way through it with our senses, and through our senses we build this world, without the senses there is no world, that is the world we know.

Yes but unless there is an independent reason to think this is on the right track, and maybe it is, than all you have to go on are the unreliable guesses and assumptions people make in interpreting the causes of their own experiences--which (and it sounds counter-intuitive), they're (and we're) far from experts in doing.

I think we all make our own world, everyone has there own concept of what the world is, at the end of the day everything is subjective, what is out there is part of all that is connected, we only see what we are able to see through our senses. But the Cosmos cannot be reduced to what we think it should be, or how we think it works, of course we can find a lot out, but again its only what our senses allows us, beyond that, WE KNOW NOTHING.

I feel that there are some who can sense what is beyond the mind, after all we are all connected, this experience is then put into the best language that we can use, the experience is beyond the mind, and so we can only use metaphors, and pointers that point another to that which was experienced.

I think most atheist miss out on this experience, for the reason that they are too much into the mind, if there is anything else that is above the mind they will always miss out. Yes so we need to keep an open mind and not a closed mind.

Quote:I think we all make our own world, everyone has there own concept of what the world is, at the end of the day everything is subjective, what is out there is part of all that is connected, we only see what we are able to see through our senses. But the Cosmos cannot be reduced to what we think it should be, or how we think it works, of course we can find a lot out, but again its only what our senses allows us, beyond that, WE KNOW NOTHING.

I feel that there are some who can sense what is beyond the mind, after all we are all connected, this experience is then put into the best language that we can use, the experience is beyond the mind, and so we can only use metaphors, and pointers that point another to that which was experienced.

I think most atheist miss out on this experience, for the reason that they are too much into the mind, if there is anything else that is above the mind they will always miss out. Yes so we need to keep an open mind and not a closed mind.

I can't see atoms in my hands but I know they are there.

(March 18, 2014 at 12:37 am)tor Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 12:35 am)heathendegenerate Wrote: the only evidence for god is the universe and the chances of it all coming together so perfectly. you have to admit, it does seem a bit hard to fathom. I'm not carl sagan, but even he must doubt from time to time. it does sometimes feel like we are the center of everything. we speak of all of these dimensions that sound harder to fathom than the universe we float in.

Not if there is a multiverse.
Out of gazillions of universes some of them will be suitable for life simply by chance.

Just as in our universe out of gazillion planets in gazillion solar systems some of em are suitable for life simply by chance.

More than one universe will never be testable..I know the big bang says it has to be true...here is to hoping

(March 18, 2014 at 12:55 am)heathendegenerate Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 12:37 am)tor Wrote: Not if there is a multiverse.
Out of gazillions of universes some of them will be suitable for life simply by chance.

Just as in our universe out of gazillion planets in gazillion solar systems some of em are suitable for life simply by chance.

More than one universe will never be testable..I know the big bang says it has to be true...here is to hoping

What if there is just one universe and no god?
I do believe in a multiverse though(which string theory supports).
Also you can't say that it's not testable until it's proven. Maybe there is a way to get into other universes. Kaku is certainly optimistic.

(March 18, 2014 at 12:38 am)psychoslice Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 12:25 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Sure it is. You're confusing what love is with what it feels like to experience love. Science can't tell you exactly what it feels like to be a cat but that doesn't mean we can't know everything else there is to know about cats! Perhaps it's an experience we could simulate if the entire neural network of a cat's brain was mapped out and thoroughly understood.


Yes but unless there is an independent reason to think this is on the right track, and maybe it is, than all you have to go on are the unreliable guesses and assumptions people make in interpreting the causes of their own experiences--which (and it sounds counter-intuitive), they're (and we're) far from experts in doing.

I think we all make our own world, everyone has there own concept of what the world is, at the end of the day everything is subjective, what is out there is part of all that is connected, we only see what we are able to see through our senses. But the Cosmos cannot be reduced to what we think it should be, or how we think it works, of course we can find a lot out, but again its only what our senses allows us, beyond that, WE KNOW NOTHING.

I feel that there are some who can sense what is beyond the mind, after all we are all connected, this experience is then put into the best language that we can use, the experience is beyond the mind, and so we can only use metaphors, and pointers that point another to that which was experienced.

I think most atheist miss out on this experience, for the reason that they are too much into the mind, if there is anything else that is above the mind they will always miss out. Yes so we need to keep an open mind and not a closed mind.

You're saying that there's sensual experiences outside of the mind? Where do those reside? In invisible jars tied to the ears? All experiences begin in the mind but not all descriptions of these experiences are equally helpful in understanding their structures or root causes. That's what science is for. It cuts through everyone's BS.