It's often said by Christians that if the founders of the early Church were hoaxers, then they wouldn't have gone to their death still professing Christianity. They would have confessed it was a hoax to avoid being executed.

But really, think about it. If one of them did confess, do you think that person would have just gone his merry way? Wouldn't there be the real threat of being murdered by some of your ex-followers? Basically, you're dead if you don't confess, and you're dead if you do confess.

1st. We have no direct evidence that the original hoaxers really did go to their deaths professing christianity.

2nd. It makes some remarkably flippant psychological presumptions to assert those responsible for a successful con which promises to outlive themselves must necessarily chose to reveal the con for what it is, and have it thus fade away in ignominy, rather than chosing to let the con outlive themselves and thus gain in their own egotistical minds a degree of mastery over their own deaths.

Ah, the old "would they die for a lie?" ploy. The basic upshot of this is that the whole story is much too silly not to be true. It's like the magic mirror on the wall in Snow White - such a childishly silly notion, yet without it the story falls apart. So, the argument runs, if these early 'martyrs' had anything better, less ridiculous, to stake their lives on, surely they'd have done that?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

Plus as Chuck says, the whole story of those brave, misunderstood martyrs has zero historical evidence anyway.

Many lies are never revealed as lies, despite the human tendency to be seemingly incapable of keeping secrets and lies to one's self. A part of us sometimes wants someone else to know the secret or the lie, our best friend or significant other, but when it comes to the type of lie that guarantees power and control over humanity, it would be detrimental to those in charge to reveal their lies and their secrets.

In our present day, any rational individual understands that religion is comprised of lies built upon lies in order to keep its adherents tethered to the faith. However, long ago, perhaps those who were instrumental in creating the major religions genuinely believed what they did. Of course, we can look back and consider them delusional, which they most likely were.

Even today, unfortunately, there are some people who are irrationally delusional with their faith, because they literally believe in all of which their religion informs them.

Quote:It's often said by Christians that if the founders of the early Church were hoaxers,

But what if they were merely delusional fuckwits?

Even hoaxers can be partial believers.

If you believe in aliens but happen to be a prankster, you might be willing to go out one night and form a crop circle with your friends for a laugh.
However, you may be far less inclined to tell people about the crop circle you made if you're regularly being mocked for your belief in aliens.
Additionally, if your crop circle hoax just happened to sway a few extra believers your way - well hell, you may be doubly inclined to keep that hoax a secret.

(May 20, 2014 at 6:43 pm)Tea Earl Grey Hot Wrote: It's often said by Christians that if the founders of the early Church were hoaxers, then they wouldn't have gone to their death still professing Christianity.

If that's the case then Islam must be the one true religion. Them mofos are still professing their BS as they blow themselves up or fly in a building.

Even Joseph Smith believed much of his own bullshit.

Kusa, perhaps you have not noticed.
The leaders of the Muslims do not blow themselves.
They get patsies to do it.
Quite different than the beginning of Christianity.

(May 20, 2014 at 8:17 pm)professor Wrote: Quite different than the beginning of Christianity.

Not likely