(May 27, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 8:31 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Prevent? I'm not sure. Interfere? I have no problem trying to talk a loved one out of committing suicide. Though if s/he were adamant, I would respect their wishes.

In the United States we basically imprison the suicidal. We don't call them prisons however....we call them mental health hospitals.

Is committing a suicidal person moral? It has certainly helped many.

Well, its the only way to help them, so it is in fact the only logical thing to do.

(May 27, 2014 at 9:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Heywood Wrote: In the United States we basically imprison the suicidal. We don't call them prisons however....we call them mental health hospitals.

Is committing a suicidal person moral? It has certainly helped many.

Well, its the only way to help them, so it is in fact the only logical thing to do.

But don't people have the right to what they want with their own bodies even if it is a tragic mistake?

People have decision-making skills, suicidal or not. If a suicidal person agrees to be committed, no problem.

(May 27, 2014 at 9:13 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I have a perspective on this from both sides if the issue. I've attempted suicide three times, one an amateurish attempt, the other two quite serious. My mother attempted and left me to find her, clean up the mess and care for my brother while she was hospitalized for months. Three friends died by their own hands (two by gunshot, one by overdose).

Morally wrong? I can't judge for another person when they've reached the point of unbearable pain. Selfish? It absolutely can be.

Can it be distilled down to black-and-white right-or-wrong? I think not.

But you're awesome CD, why would you want to kill you?

(May 27, 2014 at 9:35 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: People have decision-making skills, suicidal or not. If a suicidal person agrees to be committed, no problem.

Well I think we can agree that there is no issue with voluntary holds. However many holds are against their will. Aren't those a violation of individual privacy?

(May 27, 2014 at 9:29 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 9:24 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, its the only way to help them, so it is in fact the only logical thing to do.

But don't people have the right to what they want with their own bodies even if it is a tragic mistake?

Well, there is also the fact that most people who consider suicide do not fully assess the situation fully and well. Most suicide attempts are generally not-very well thought out. That's why we call them a tragedy.

In such cases, people need to be restrained for their own good.

(May 27, 2014 at 10:01 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 9:35 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: People have decision-making skills, suicidal or not. If a suicidal person agrees to be committed, no problem.

Well I think we can agree that there is no issue with voluntary holds. However many holds are against their will. Aren't those a violation of individual privacy?

That question deserves a lot more nuance than "yes" or "no".

(May 27, 2014 at 10:01 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 9:35 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: People have decision-making skills, suicidal or not. If a suicidal person agrees to be committed, no problem.

Well I think we can agree that there is no issue with voluntary holds. However many holds are against their will. Aren't those a violation of individual privacy?

Like in legal terms?

(May 27, 2014 at 9:53 pm)Sejanus Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 9:13 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I have a perspective on this from both sides if the issue. I've attempted suicide three times, one an amateurish attempt, the other two quite serious. My mother attempted and left me to find her, clean up the mess and care for my brother while she was hospitalized for months. Three friends died by their own hands (two by gunshot, one by overdose).

Morally wrong? I can't judge for another person when they've reached the point of unbearable pain. Selfish? It absolutely can be.

Can it be distilled down to black-and-white right-or-wrong? I think not.

But you're awesome CD, why would you want to kill you?

I don't. Not anymore. I had a psychotic break shortly after graduating high school, which is when my first two attempts occurred. The third was in 2008 when I wasn't very connected to reality - and abusing cocaine to boot (p.s. auto airbags work really, really well).

Never underestimate the power of mental illness.

(May 27, 2014 at 9:18 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 27, 2014 at 8:31 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Prevent? I'm not sure. Interfere? I have no problem trying to talk a loved one out of committing suicide. Though if s/he were adamant, I would respect their wishes.

In the United States we basically imprison the suicidal. We don't call them prisons however....we call them mental health hospitals.

Is committing a suicidal person moral? It has certainly helped many.

I would like to see the cost of this "saved many"? I wonder how many are walking around while others are still paying for their salvation.