Hey there!
I'm back with yet another "spiritual itch" that needs scratching... haha...
here it goes...

Let's say that a man has some sort of heart problem, his heart fails and stops... and some minutes later he's gone.
Let's say now that the exact moment after he's gone, we "fix" his heart and everything else that was hurt during the "dying process"... I don't think he will live again... will he?

So the basic question is... do you believe there is a "soul"? Something more than electrical impulses that fire up neurons in our brain?
Maybe the actual question is what life is and how is it triggered when all the "body stuff" is in place and ready to start clicking?
Thanx in advance for sharing your thoughts!

All cells don't immediately die when the heart stops pumping, although oxygen deprivation to the brain for a matter of minutes (8-20 if I remember correctly) can have permanent effects.

As far as the soul question, I am persuaded by the eliminative materialist position.

(May 30, 2014 at 7:26 am)Jason_ab Wrote: Hey there!
I'm back with yet another "spiritual itch" that needs scratching... haha...
here it goes...

Let's say that a man has some sort of heart problem, his heart fails and stops... and some minutes later he's gone.
Let's say now that the exact moment after he's gone, we "fix" his heart and everything else that was hurt during the "dying process"... I don't think he will live again... will he?

So the basic question is... do you believe there is a "soul"? Something more than electrical impulses that fire up neurons in our brain?
Maybe the actual question is what life is and how is it triggered when all the "body stuff" is in place and ready to start clicking?
Thanx in advance for sharing your thoughts!

I can put a meaning to the word soul but it wouldn't be anything apart from the organism itself and its processes. I don't think a soul is something that gets together with a body or goes somewhere else when the body can't carry on. Just like "mind" and "digestion" are things generated by a body, so too is a "soul".

(May 30, 2014 at 7:26 am)Jason_ab Wrote: Let's say that a man has some sort of heart problem, his heart fails and stops... and some minutes later he's gone.
Let's say now that the exact moment after he's gone, we "fix" his heart and everything else that was hurt during the "dying process"... I don't think he will live again... will he?

Yes, he will. In fact I've done it myself. 3 times. So far in my life, I've been dead for an accumulative total of just over 5 minutes.

Quote:So the basic question is... do you believe there is a "soul"? Something more than electrical impulses that fire up neurons in our brain?

Assuming a simple, generic, popular definition of 'soul' as 'disembodied personality/mind': no, I don't believe in them. There's no evidence that souls exists or even could exist.

Quote:Maybe the actual question is what life is and how is it triggered when all the "body stuff" is in place and ready to start clicking?
Thanx in advance for sharing your thoughts!

There are fairly well established bio-chemical and bio-electrical causes for individual life. If you mean 'Life', not all the details are known but enough has been discovered for us to be almost conclusively sure that naturalistic, chemical processes gave rise to the first life-forms.

Atheist.....forums......dot......org.

A.......F........

Question about soul?

Only one answer:

What happens is the soul leaves and goes to the afterlife. If you revive the body a disembodied possibly evil spirit enters it. It's not the same person anymore.

(May 30, 2014 at 8:04 am)Ben Davis Wrote: In fact I've done it myself. 3 times. So far in my life, I've been dead for an accumulative total of just over 5 minutes.

Man that's so cool. Would expect more insights on the afterlife, though... haha..

Well, I've reached this far by now:
Soul cannot have memories (those are imprinted in our brains) or "personality" (for the same reason).
Can't help having the feeling that there is a really radical defference on a person 1 second before he dies and one second after. The whole "permanent effect" of death is what forces my stupid mind to think that there is something "leaving" our body when it disfunctions that will not "return" if we "fix" it. Ben your example (though it is quite cool) does not qualify as "coming back from the dead".

Let me put it this way:
If i cut your head... you will probably die... but if I had a way of "stiching" your head back, you wouldn't live again.
If we compare my body 5 minutes after I am dead to 5 minutes before... cmon man there would not be a REALLY big difference in my physiology... exept the "dead" thing...
So is there something leaving our body when we die? That cannot return if we "undie" physically?

(May 30, 2014 at 8:53 am)Jason_ab Wrote: So is there something leaving our body when we die? That cannot return if we "undie" physically?

No, nothing leaves the body. Neurons die.

Quote:After successful cardiopulmonary resuscitation, cerebral recirculation disturbances and complex metabolic postreflow derangements lead to death of vulnerable neurons with further deterioration of cerebral outcome. This article discusses recent research efforts on the pathophysiology of brain injury caused by cardiac arrest and reviews the beneficial effect of therapeutic hypothermia on neurologic outcome along with the recent approach to prognosticate long-term outcome by electrophysiologic techniques and molecular markers of brain injury.

http://www.wakeems.com/ICE/Hypothermia/h...arrest.pdf

(May 30, 2014 at 9:20 am)Cato Wrote: http://www.wakeems.com/ICE/Hypothermia/h...arrest.pdf

Fuck. I would not understand this article if it was written in Greek, much more in English. Please... the bottom line?

(May 30, 2014 at 9:27 am)Jason_ab Wrote:

(May 30, 2014 at 9:20 am)Cato Wrote: http://www.wakeems.com/ICE/Hypothermia/h...arrest.pdf

Fuck. I would not understand this article if it was written in Greek, much more in English. Please... the bottom line?

Fucking hell, you aren't kidding are you?

(May 30, 2014 at 9:20 am)Cato Wrote: No, nothing leaves the body. Neurons die.

Was this not simple enough?